so i geared up (finally) to run my heroics with my mate and friend, and turns out the plane of innovaiton bosses do still infact death touch non fighter tanks. (1512585786)[Wed Dec 6 13:43:06 2017] Clockwork Prototype XXIV's Cog Block hits YOU for 177722078 piercing damage. (1512585112)[Wed Dec 6 13:31:52 2017] Powered Mechanization's Sprocket Spray hits YOU for 161155090 piercing damage. (1512583132)[Wed Dec 6 12:58:52 2017] Repair Bot 5000's Cog Block hits YOU for 178080051 piercing damage. so my friend logged on his lv 105 fighter alt with starter gear (70 points under resolve check and got hit for... (1512585114)[Wed Dec 6 13:31:54 2017] Powered Mechanization's Sprocket Spray hits ******** for 17882688 piercing damage. the damage is unwardable. unavoidable. and un mitable , im not sure if its a bug. or a misunderstanding what a Death touch is. but it will hit you enough times to bite through 4 death prevents in one second. through all defensives, and damage preventions. thats the exact same thing as saying death touch.
Just so we're clear, fighter = tank. There is no such thing as a "non fighter tank", unless you're talking about someone tanking a zone with a scout, which is outside the intended skillset of scouts (operative word: intended). The death touch affected scouts, mages, and priests. All fighters, regardless or armor type were exempt. Your logs seem to indicate an issue different from the death touch, since it impacted your fighter friend as well as you.
just so we're clear, there are non fighter tanks. scouts have had defensive stances since day 1, just because they don't want to tank doesn't mean they can't if they were geared and willing to do it. - ever heard of the brusiers or monks that just want to dps? This issue is a problem to groups that do not want to wait for a fighter, or grow tired of LF "Fighter" when it needs to be (and still remains to be said) LF TANK (where tank = anyone that can hold aggro and not die in a few hits) and theres a difference between taking a 170 million dmg hit compared to a 17m dmg hit, when the 17m dmg hit is on the fighter with 70 less resolve than the boss, and im 50 over it. AND they said they no longer DT in these zones.
... and if I was tanking at 70 points under resolve, I'd deserve to die. Not seeing your problem with it? Didn't you die a lot before your Resolve was high enough in KA? We've been through this haven't we?
no - i didn't do anything until my resolve was high enough, was a week before i started tanking those heroics too just like this year, my problem is they said they removed the DT, 170m damage unavoidable hits = DT, and the alt fighter we used was 400 resolve, not me, maybe i wasn't clear.
yeah, the mobs in PoI are death touching our fighter too now. can we make them? 4 hits of unwardable unavoidable, unmitable 20~30 million hits every 61 seconds is fun right? or are alt tanks supposed to have 100 million hp? because apparently 45 isn't enough or timing death prevents since it hits 4 times and dies twice per cast. (1512662658)[Thu Dec 7 11:04:18 2017] The Manaetic Behemoth's Bolt Buster hits ******** for 23587150 piercing damage.
That spell should not be hitting fighters like that, in fact, that spell is actually from another boss. I will get it sorted.
there are exceptions. but nearly every boss in the PoI zones were doing some sort of cog block / sproket spray / bolt buster on me for 160m. and on the fighter for 20m . hitting 4 times every 60s.. shoulda just brought his main and scout tank tag'd the death touches =) it made the behemoth fun to kill when it heals for 10% every death. and death touches its target every 60s... we also triggered its panic script.. twice, with me, a swash 2 shamans (yeah....) and the alt SK tanking (5/6 !)
Let's cut to the chase and get to the real underlying issue here. People who are too cheap or unable to buy a subscription and rely on platinum to buy kronos. These mechanics are posing obstacles for people to make platinum via farming, /auction SLR, shiny's, etc. from heroic zones. The guise of caring about groups being stranded and in need of tanks are hypothetical excuses to further manipulate the system in your favor and get what you want. It is pure selfishness to feel entitled that your class should be able to do more than others; this is one of many reasons the established class roles have become blurred and has lead to a dwindling fighter population. Any class being able to fulfill roles of another class should not be intended and further alienates that class. The pendulum needs to swing both ways if cross-breeding classes is going to be allowed. Example, scout and mages want to fill tank roles? Ok. Fighter's and priests can fill DPS roles then. I think the developers are trying to do the right thing, it's just some people are too selfish to care or understand. I say requiring a fighter mechanic was a good move. If you want to farm plat, conform, and go roll up a fighter to take with you, not really that hard. By the way the script says looking for a fighter, not a non-fighter tank, because there is no such thing.
this Death touching mechanic is not ok, its unnecessary on raid mobs and should not have been remotely thought about being added to heroic mobs. - the end. there are non fighter tanks IF they choose to be one, rogues and bards have the abilities to do so. most choose not too however but the option is there if they tried. it is not ok to impose your restrictions on others because its your belief that only fighters should SLR / farm plat think about it.
Then why have different architypes at all? You want your scout to also be able to tank? How about we just let every class do everything they want? Wouldn't that be fun! No, it wouldn't. It's not about people trying to "impose their restrictions on others", it's people wanting to play a game with more clearly defined roles, as the game was originally intended. Read through these forums and you'll see they're full of posts by people upset that their class is no longer desired in groups because some other class can now fill more than one role. "Non-fighter tanks" should never have been a thing in the first place. Class balance means you'll need a fighter to tank a zone, a priest for heals, etc, etc. Blurring the lines between classes is one of the key reasons class balance is such a mess.
Sure why not. I mean, they have the tools available. Fighters can turn taunts into detaunts, can use DW/2H and have plenty of offence focused AA's. Priests all have a DPS stance and further boosts to their damage at the cost of their healing output (With Clerics being the epitome due to Exorcise being a very significant heal reduction on top of the effects of Yaulp AND the standard Shadows capstone that sacrifices healing to get better offence) So, yeah, Fighters/Priests have as much a right to be DPS as say a Swashy does for being a Tank. Other Scout tanks are... Less naturally occurring since only Rogues get the natural ST Taunt and the AA for AoE taunt (With the assortment of threat/damage procs focused around tanking or getting hit) since at that point all they really have going for them is their defensive stances (With Bards also getting all of their defensive songs effects) and not much in terms of threat gain. Which generally means that for a non-Rogue based Scout tank, you have to invest more into gear in order to function correctly... As opposed to Fighter/Priest going DPS wherein they have a bunch of AA's that help them out... But yeah, if someone goes through the effort of kitting their character out to perform an off-role (Successfully) then why stop that? If the issue is just that DPS Fighters/Priests aren't up to snuff compared to actual DPS, then why not tweak them rather than gut the other classes some of whom don't even have their "Main Role" to fall back on (I.e. Swashy DPS compared to you know, other classes) You say that, but I have absolutely 0 interest in this heroic plat farm strat. I'm not asking for viable non-Fighter Tanks because I want to cheese more plat out of the game, but merely because I want to play a class I enjoy in the role I enjoy. To me, Swashy is a fun class to play. I also like tanking. Looking at the class objectively, it signals that instead of being a raw T1 DPS type class it instead leans towards tanking with a plethora of tools to facilitate that (Tanking stance, Tease, Swear, Conditioning, Formation, Lunge Reversal, Coule, Traumatic Strike, Ruthless Riposte, Swarthy Expertise, Enfeebling Whirl, Dance of Metal (With Enhance: Dance of Metal heroic line), Duelist's Perception, Pris de Fer, Paralytic Venom, Dashing Flourish, Pirate's Spin and En Guard - All good for reducing damage output of enemies, gaining defences and/or providing extra threat) But to then be faced with a brick wall that says "Nope. That's not a thing" is annoying. Even more so when the reasoning behind that wall are kind of vague ("Fighters aren't useful!" is not a particularly enthralling reasoning. Especially when you could tweak them directly...) and then leaves you with a Swashy that kind of does some? damage and then that's about it. With a significant portion of their kit rendered obsolete (Maybe some Molo shenanigans?), parts of their kit that also made them stand out from other Scouts too...
OK you've converted me. Only my berzerker has that many death prevents and half the time they don't work together. Add two healers that's two more, but it's beyond crazy to have that in heroics. Save it for experts and raids I say.
yes, yes it would, much less waiting around for groups if people could handle multiple things. do you even know their intended rolls? its not tank dps dps healer. bards and rogues have the ability to do it originally. this complaint would only hold water against the t2 dps summoners that are still making sorcerers feel salty. class balance means you'll need a TANK (someone that can do the job) a HEALER (someone that can do the job) and some Support OR DPS (people that can do the job) not every group has to be fighter / priest / bard / 3 randomdps a group could very well be a swash tank a beastlord healer a troub for support. and 3 random dps. i don't see people crying out for the non priest healers (cough beastlord) and i wouldn't want them too because i know a few that do that. classes are still unique enough yet need to be diverse, else we'd only have 4 classes aside from ascensions
Well let's see. Because I've been connected with people in the gaming industry for a few decades, I was invited to join Alpha testing for EQ1. I got to speak with the devs quite a bit and even had a great conversation with Brad McQuaid at one point. When EQ2 was in development I received the same invitation and got to have numerous conversations with the dev team even before Alpha began. So yes, I'd say I know the "intended" roles. Mind you, I understand that things change and games evolve over time. My point is that the continued blurring of roles does harm to the game. I can't count how many guildmates I've seen quit over the fact that class X wasn't needed anymore, because class Y (which was a completely different architype) could do the job intended for class X better than class X itself. We're not playing a game with an open skillset tree. We're playing a game built and intended to be played in a group, with defined roles. You're SUPPOSED to choose the job you like most and fill that role in a group. If that's not the kind of game you want to play, why are you playing a game in the EQ franchise??!!
You're way off. First, the population of multiboxers (which has repeatedly been confirmed as an allowed form of play, for years!).. still the population is very low. Sure they're very visible. But have you ever seen ten such groups in the same screenful? I haven't. Why? Because it's expensive. Multiply $39 x5 or better yet x8 for rotations of different classes you may need, and you're in for a soak every expansion. Second, I've done SLR, so has everyone else who has PUG'ed an Expert in KA on my server. In fact I did it back in Ethermere with Challenge Solo's. My husband and I did that together. I've helped others run their SLRs for a tip of the profits, and the boss drop tokens (where everyone gets one). Does that make me a plat farmer? No. Most of the money I've made, I made with buying a Krono and selling it. 10-30k plat from an Expert SLR will not keep you afloat. Not even early on when it's going to be more like 100k plat. I can spend that much on 5 upgrades for my main in a few minutes. I dont' see it as an "impediment" to any group of players. If anything it's the class balance that everyone has been seeking. A return to the roles. Since I've seen and sometimes helped at least 8 tanks get their epics last exapc I think if you're LF tank for a long time, then when you get one, be sure to explain what you want (clear the zone or not?, fast run or quest run? etc) up front and say THANK YOU for tanking. Why is that so hard? The first time I tanked it was a French group and I was delighted they said thanks. Ditto in Skyshrine, the best groups had English accents, they even thanked my Scout for interrupting. End thankless tanking and you'll be LF tank much less. Were you around when Skyrshrine (?) could be done with 6 SK's, all using Reckless stance except one or two? Yeah that was broken too. In some ways I think EQ2 is a testing ground for game rules. Look at all the changes and how wild some of them have been. When I play other games, people know less about the rules and some of them are frustrated by that. For the most part though, they don't need to know because they haven't had the changes we've had. We've been riding a tiger for years. We're more savvy than some player groups out there. We should be proud of our adaptability and adapt back to a more classic form of play. The "pendulum" has swung both ways already. IMHO anyway.
I think we all understand wanting to fill diverse roles, but let's not get carried away. The way I understand some scouts are granted taunts is so they can pick up the mob(s) temporarily when the tank goes down, long enough for the party to get things back in order. A valuable "save the day" maneuver. But the idea that scouts are intended to routinely wade into battle, replacing an actual tank, seems kind of extreme IMO.
You know, a lot of this discussion - and the issues that prompt it every time it arises - would be much more clear if both the Team and the players made a distinction between CLASS and ROLE instead of using them interchangeably. From the very beginning in EQ some CLASSES could fill more than one ROLE, even if they didn't excel at it. This tradition continued into EQ2, as well as many other games. A lot of folks also tend to forget that it wasn't originally the 'trinity' of tank, healer, dps, rather tank, healer, crowd control, utility, dps.
Even if this was the case (Which would be still odd, given that simply Sleight of Hand, Devious Blade and Spurious Bravado would be enough to temporarily tank something, an actual Taunt, plus extended threat gain from things like Formation and Duelist's Perception would not be necessary. Also, it would imply someone picking a bunch of AA's in anticipation of the tank failing rather than going balls to the wall on DPS and de-taunt AA's like a normal DD would...) Then a Deathtouch mechanic is a stupid idea. Since it means that the scenario is: Tank Dies > Scout picks up temporary aggro > Scout gets deathtouched > Party wipes.
