SKs need some LOVE too!

Just something is easy, does not make it less enjoyable, or does it? If something is remarkeable, does it have to be that hard to be?
I like a good fight, if its easy or hard, just the script had to work out the right way (even some days trying)

On most of my red adorns for armor i put CB, everything except Chest piece infact has CB on it, no real reason to do anything else. Primary could be a reuse one, atm im using the pow blade or a red rune 187 stat one, really depends on the fight which i choose between. My cb solo is 360 something if i remember right.

I was talking more about White adons and Reforging worthless/capped stats... like I don't mind losing a little AB or over capped DPS when I can get more Casting Speed. I run R/Y Mit adorns on my Chest and Block for the whites.

I also am able to run Reckless about 1/3 of the time so I have a completely different set of gear, I swap 12 pieces, that are all reforged and adorned differently. Where I push everything White and some R/Y to Pot/Flurry/Cast/Reuse. Nothing says "Hello Mr. Boss Mob" like an 800% Potency Harm Touch.

The Problem with people like you is - you judge others without knowing or even considering what they are doing with their chars. You only see what you're doing yourself. Your spec may be the best for you, but certainly not for me.
I can excuse if you're ignorant on this point, I can't excuse though that you go around insulting people non-stop and implying everybody is an idiot if he doesn't use your AA spec or has different views. Learn some manners please.

Um, Ouch? I hope that isn't as powerful in PvP or else you could 1 shot some people with it.

He might have been 'rude', but he's not calling for Nerfs or claiming the class they're playing is broken becasue they might not understand its potential or how to achieve the resluts. From you're posts I assume you're looking more at PVP and calling for Balancing in the BG relm, which is NEVER happen across 25 classes. Some will always be better and OPed becasue balancing then is fool-hearty.

However, as I posted earlier, I never saw a Shadowknight tree spec'ed like yours and never ever had I though it was possible to place 100 AA points in that tree in such an order. The AA allows people to adjust their focus and offers flexibility and of course there is more than one right way, but from my experience what you've spec'ed into is a long way from any of those.

I will however say that this 'SKs are broken' thread is not as bad as the fools who think Monks have better AE DPS, those guys are really out in left field.

I wouldn't know .. when I want to PVP I fire up my favorite FPS title.

who cares what you have never seen or thought. I set my AA as I need it, and right now I need it as it is. You may be lacking the experience to know what you're talking about. And yes, Monks have better AE DPS unless you throw in more than 5 mobs which rarely happens, if they don't they probably don't know how to play their class

Didn't you just get mad for someone saying the same exact thing about not knowing classes? As for AA specs, considering 90% of AA trees are cookie cutter, you can't blame someone for mentioning when someone else has a different spec than most people. With how bad some AAs are and how bad those AAs need to be revamped, most people just assume there's only one correct spec.

You say "learn some manners" then tell the next guy, who cares what he sees or thinks... smooth...

I put the rolling eyes there for a reason.
That line was meant ironically, because I've been reading it so often in this thread. I don't like reading such condescending remarks.

I need the AA as it is, eg. I need the group heal and esp. cure from the Prestige line for some things. And don't worry, I change it anyway as needed. If you think 90% is self evident, than I say - it's only self evident for what you know and what you do. Besides, I got compliments from 3 people in the last 2 weeks "that was the best tanking I've seen in a long time" , so I guess I don't svck just as much as some guys fantasize here.

Monks outclass every other fighter in game for nearly every role of tanking. The only 2 I can think of is a pally+BL for sustained agro on a non-memwiping mob and an SK on large AE fights which there are VERY few of. We can't compete and 2 amazing SKs have already stated that. Try to understand another classes abilities when both players are equally geared/skilled and the same conclusion should become clear to you.

Also, nobody is saying that Warriors couldn't use some help too. I've played a Guardian this xpac as well as pally/SK. There are significant gaps in performance when you look at any other tank class compared to brawlers.

This right here tells me that this whole thread is fail. Even the concept of a Monk AE outparsing a SK is ridiculous at the 3+ mark. What this thread has ultimately failed to outline is under what context are these statements and those obscure AA specs being lerveraged. Because if we're talking about top-end raiding its all just plain nonsense, but if you're all talking about PUG heroics or BG-PVP it has an entirely different application.

SKs hold aggro on raid non-mem-wipping mobs just like everyone else, which is 100% fine. You're all calling for Nerfs to one class or Buffs to another basd on what exactly? Some PUG Bruiser out parsed you on an AE fight or some BG Monk beat you up a few times in a row?

I raid tank on my sk in POW standing next to a Guardian, a Bruiser, a Berserker and a Monk. Not a single one of those fighter classes can or has out parsed my SK, HOWEVER, the Guardian and both Brawlers have much better snaps and DPs then my SK or the Berserker. Sure I'd like to have better or faster snaps. Sure I'd like to have more effective DPs. But the fact is that where the SK excells (AE Aggro) others fail to accomplish and where the SK falls short others excell. Making every tank have the exact same functions is way too dumb for me, thx.

thanks for finally admitting that monks in comparable gear outparse SK against 3 enemies. you could have admitted the full truth though.
No, we're not talking about top end raiding, but I agree that SKs need better snaps for raids.

Pretty much the only support you're getting in this thread is in regards to SKs being at a disadvantage in top end raiding. The overwhelming consensus is SKs are one of the better choices in heroic and EM raiding. Why would you torpedo your own argument =/

POW doesn't have memshuffling mobs that will **** your raid because your crusader doesn't have the snaps to pick it back up reliably. Yea, you'll get lucky; but usually you're just standing their with your sword up your rear. Your argument that brawlers can't do the same job as a crusader is an oversight in class abilities. I can reiterate the point that Brawlers get Combat Mastery. It's amazing. I want a brawler in my group and I'm an SK....that help you with how powerful it is? All that an SK brings to a raid that no other tank class does is 5% increased spell damage for the raid and a Pally only brings 5% increased heals. WOW! IKR? OP!!!!

Pallies get Amends though! Again, doesn't help you a ton when that mob just memshuffled and you're at the bottom of the list trying desperately to keep your Mystic from getting 1 shotted. Crusader's cant even get weapons to give us the same autoattack damage as every other class.

All in all, a crusader is fantastic to have to act as a buffer for the raid if your MT brawler drops. That's our utility, yet we don't have the snaps to do it reliably. We don't have the DPs to sustain it either on any fight that we're actually considering in "Top End Raiding".

I don't want every class to have the same role, but arguing that Brawlers can't do the same job just as well is silly. Brawlers do get it all. The only thing required is the knowledge to spec correctly for the situation and the ability to push buttons. Not a tough thing to do in a game that almost forces you into the right spec with how outdated some AAs are.

EM raiding and grouping in this game isn't a challenge though. It's just unfortunate that there aren't as many people in game that have experience with the harder content. The harder the content gets, the more extreme the issue becomes. Shouldn't the game be balanced around that aspect when the rest is just filler that can be done with a haphazard setup and minimum skill?

I'm not torpedoing anything. I agree that SKs are the worst choice of any class for raiding, and that they need a big boost to their abilities to catch back up to monks.
I said I am not talking about top end raiding, because my initial post was about monks in ridiculous LEATHER being able to take more beatings than SKs while at the same time dealing more damage.

Both those statements are wrong or at the very least grossly exaggerated.

Sk's destroy all the tanks atm when it comes to AE encounters and atm nearly all the content has adds. They have more AE's than a dam Warlock.

Sk's have the most to gain from Reckless (potency) since there top parsing abilitys are all spells (which potency help) while other classes like Brawlers and Warriors top dps is there auto attack (potency does nothing for auto attack btw).

Yes a Monk will out tank you on single target but but then Sk's are the best AE tanks with the range you have to pick up adds from your spells is amazing compared to the 5 meters Brawlers get.

Im sorry if you play a SK and suck at it but I have seen some great ones with equal gear as myself and SK's are not even close to what you call sucking.

Well lets see there are several allocations here, lets brake them down and dismiss them one at a time.
1. Monks taking damage better then SK’s?
2. Snaps on a Memblering named?
3. Monks out dpsing SK’s?

1a. Monk’s are a defensive tank and SK’s re an offensive tank. Leather or plat armor is not a factor here. The monk should be able to take damage from a single target better then the SK does. Next, given equivalent gear, AA specing, buffs, the SK will have higher Physical Mitigation and very near equal Uncontested Block to a monk. Uncontested Block is the only part of the avoidance check that is adjusted based on class/stance/shield all others Uncontested avoidance checks should be the same. So this dismisses the sustained damage part, the Sk should take the same or better damage on sustained damage.
1b. Physical Spick damage, Monk vs SK. The monk will have a few more tools to deal with spick damage then the SK will, but again, I go back to the Defensive tank and Offensive tank part. The Offensive tank should not be able to take damage from a single hard hitting Named as well as a Single target Defensive tank. (I know I know u don’t think we are single target tank I will get to that in part 3)
1c. NonPhysical damage, Monk vs SK. Here I am not sure. I as a monk have only 1 stone skin and one self ward to help Agensed nonphysical damage.

2. Snaps – monks do have more snaps single target then an SK, and with the use of Mantis Leap ones in a while we can get a blue snap. I know Brusers get more Blue Snaps but that’s not the class being talked about here. But as for Memblering named… no tank has Enuff to deal with them. They are just a BAD design and should have never been made, its all about luck to deal with them. Also several people here and me think that both crusaders need to have their snaps looked at.

3. DPS – this is there player skill and buffs come into play so much that any argument any one can make is only going to be subjective. Only the Dev’s can tell us at an overall game wide what is going on, and I trust that Xelged is keeping an eye on the numbers on that. When you break apart a 1mil+ parse, very little of it is coming from the player that is parsing that.

Lastly Xelged has already taken feedback that he is going to use and there is no need to keep filling this thread with your ideas and opinions about how broken and OP whatever class is or is not.