Wizard Love

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Mazame, Feb 12, 2021.

  1. Travestii Elder

    This seems like it would be an easy change to implement and would be a welcome step in the right direction.
  2. Mongol311 Worst Wiz in EQ

  3. Kelset Elder

    Couple thoughts after reading comments from the last couple of pages:
    * I think the current level of complexity is fine and agree with the point that asking devs to tune playstyle would probably push any changes way out.
    * From a group only standpoint, my wizards slow down my box group due to mana issues with any sustained DPS. To be clear though, this is a sustained dps issue not a mana issue in my mind. I do agree we should not be a sustained dps class like melees or pet classes but don't think it is high enough at the moment.
    * I'm happy to provide group level wizard parses in any scenario or spell/adps combo but don't have other dps characters to compare to. I can provide wizard parses with or without enchanter adps/auras and with 1-3 wizards in the group (one recently added so only low 20k aa range)
    * Although I've never tried the test server before, I'm happy to start to test any changes from a group geared perspective

    As always, thanks to the class leaders and those who have deep understandings of the mechanic taking the time to lay out the issues. It helps my play style if nothing else.
    Vumad, kizant and Kalvenie like this.
  4. Kalvenie New Member

    Kelset, you make a good point on group DPS - particularly for group geared players. Mana becomes an issue. The compromise on mana is to trade out high DPS spell lines (etherals etc) for lower mana spells so get sustained DPS for a longer period of time, but therefore reducing overall effectiveness of wizard DPS output.

    I'll try to review difference between a lower mana spell set vs a higher mana spell set. Could probably use Kizants DPS app.
    Kelset and kizant like this.
  5. Ezbro Elder

    Why would anyone get the idea that if you have good burst, your sustained need to suck? My berserker burns fine and sustains fine. Last thing I want to do is memorize weaker spells. Would you tell the berserker to use a weaker weapon outside burns? My wizard burns could be using the aa's ( with more reasonable timers than now), and my sustained could be the same spells, while the aa's are on cooldown. Also dont tune the mana cost to raid geared people.
    Vumad likes this.
  6. SonOfABiscuit Augur

    So, at last raid (CoV), the best wizards were still behind necros and mages and not by that small of a margin. Hoping they are still going to look into boosting wizzy dps a good amount. No matter what we try we just can't seem to compete. :(
  7. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    A suggestion that would help the moloing wizard, would be to improve our casting time when buffing.
    It would help a lot with summoners, if we were less likely to get interrupted when casting shield of order while tanking.
    It wouldn't allow us to tank "in era", but it would help with older expansion-quests. :)
  8. SonOfABiscuit Augur

    I was just talking to an SK buddy of mine, and I parsed his harm touch. Why is it substantially more damage than mana burn, and on a shorter reuse timer? This isn't adding up...
    kizant likes this.
  9. kizant Augur

    Yeah that's one of of a number of issues I hope they consider when they get to looking into Wizard concerns. The reason for it being on a long re-use is that it's supposed to have a big impact/have a wow factor. But at this point it really doesn't. There's a number of normal attacks during a burn that do more damage than the special ability Mana Burn.
    Mongol311 likes this.
  10. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Is their any news on helping wizzys with their lost DPS?
    Mongol311 likes this.
  11. Petalonyx Augur

    Am also curious on what is planned, and when it might go live. I looked back at old threads, and it seems this issue has grown fairly steadily over many years at this point.
    Mongol311 likes this.
  12. OlavSkullcrusher Augur

    Mana Burn is also a buff, rather than a DD, if I understand it correctly, so it cannot be focused, twincast, and cannot critical. But it also adds (at its highest rank) 25000 damage to any DDs that land on the mob (excluding lifetaps and after any crits are calculated). The buff lasts like 2 minutes, I think? It would probably be hard to figure out how much damage that is from a parse. In any case, that seems like it would only be significant in a raid, when dozens of players are hitting the mob with nukes, maybe procs count, and the mob would last long enough for it to matter.

    I agree overall. MB just doesn't have that much of a wow factor. My wizard is far from well geared for lvl 115 (I haven't gotten him any crystallized velium ore items yet, let alone anything from CoV), and I can get over 1 mil on Ethereal nuke crits. 3.5 mil once every 30 min is kind of 'big whoop'. Even Arcane Fusion goes off more than that.
  13. OlavSkullcrusher Augur

    News about their plans has been really thin going back years. I'd have to search for the last general Q&A they had. My bad . . . the Discord AMA that is stickied and was last year in March. But it has been extremely quiet since then about a ton of issues.
  14. Mookus Augur

    Melee can’t help but crit. Caster non-crit is like something that didn’t even happen in comparison to a nuke crit.

    Simply, wizard should always crit. I shouldn’t have to juggle a twenty minute aa to be viable. That some ham handed solution has still not happened is a huge fail.
    Stop the analysis paralysis. Use half the melee overpowering simpleton effort you used to overpower melee on wizards now!

    Even that wouldn’t be enough, but do something big already.
  15. kizant Augur

    If you look at it in total it does ends up being 16 million damage with 1.5 second cast time if you start using it between spell casts. It's not terrible but during a raid burn there are a number of classes that can do even more damage with just their standard spells/abilities. And without the insane mana costs and 1/2 the re-use times on burns and they get all the damage credit.
    Szilent, Sancus, Lophophora and 3 others like this.
  16. Szilent Augur

    Mana Burn's boost to spell damage has a hit counter : 500 spells that meet its criteria. This makes it Not Really Adps. It does a fixed amount of damage, just spread out in a funny way. 3.5M + 500*25000 = 16M damage, exactly, every time it's used in a raid. In groups that damage gets cut down by a lot usually since the counters can't be used, but that handicap doesn't make it conversely powerful in raids. Some raids can use up the counters super fast like in just a tick or two, some raids take 30s-1m to use up the counters, but in no raid does the ability deal other than 16M damage. At a cost of 80000 mana. With a cast time. With a *thirty six minute* reuse time.

    It might be countable as (fairly poor) ADPS if it had no reuse time at all, so that it could be kept on a target indefinitely (at a pretty insane mana cost), but that's not the case. I would be kinda nutty ADPS if the additional damage were crit-able. That's probably beyond considering, plus no wizard I've talked to wants it to be adps.

    To remotely match the efficiency of regular spells that can just be cast on every mob no problem like with no reuse timer in the way, the mana cost would have to be chopped to ~20k if estimating < 30s battle, or ~5k if granting the "2 minute" duration. Again, no player's terribly interested in the efficiency per se. Wizards mostly want the button to have an effect worth paying for. And we don't want that effect to have literally double the re use time of every other burn ability in EverQuest.

    Personally, I dislike that it even exists because it keeps coming up like Spongebob-meme #wHAtAbOuTMAnABurrrrrrrrn. It's crap and has no bearing on wizard power. It's a red herring. I don't care about its being fixed, I care about core wizarding power boosts making wizarding being good.
  17. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    My personal wish for manaburn, is that it would actually be a big(well, gigantic) nuke you could use in a pinch to turn a bad pull into something manageable. For example by one-shotting an unlucky add in the group-game(instead of just hitting evac). Or actually leave a visible dent in the HP-bar on a raid mob.
    In TBM, back when the "after-effect" could crit(or was it something with necro-dots?), I could actually see the HP on raidmobs decrease a little quicker when the effect was on.

    Even if they change it to a gigantic nuke that hurts a raidmob for 2-3% of its total health, it would not encourage a "team-manaburn-scenario", no-one is going to make a raid of 30+ wizards anyway...:p

    Oh, and reduce the cooldown to 15 mins(also for Arcane Fury and Fury of the Gods), to make it easier to time with other people's burns.
  18. Szilent Augur

    no crits, no additional damage ever. Each dot tick would use one of the counters, so necros would dumpster the hit counter super fast with 20 dots ticking & all the procs they can pack on. Flashy indeed to get an extra 0.5M/tick in TBM -- flashy for the necro. But the Mana Burn button did no more damage that way than it did/does with regular nukes.
  19. Szilent Augur

    My personal wish for manaburn is that it would go away, to be rebuilt as a good button after the wizard class is made more functional underneath it. Thinking and talking about Mana Burn is a red herring.
    -----Cinexa----- likes this.
  20. Loratex The Ridiculous Necro

    We all did and look at us now.

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