I've never had a problem with the cleric mercs. Not running out of mana is more of a draw, since PC clerics don't run out of mana either, and can also give it to other players (bards aside) via QM. Granted, they come with the "advantage" that they don't need to take breaks or need loot (plat upkeep aside). But their actual performance is pitiful. They lack any ability to triage the situation and do what is the best course of action at the time. They use only the smallest fraction of tools available to them, and often poorly. I have no problem getting groups, or getting progression done, or working collections, etc. None of our main guild clerics are "struggling in the middle." Our progression group that raced through content to be able to request raids had a cleric healer. You do need be proactive about it, make friends, join a guild, tell people you are adding them to your friends list and ask them to do the same (especially tanks), offer to help people out, offer to replace a cleric merc if you see someone is using one (and likewise, offer to replace your mercs if you see a possible replacement).
My 2 cents, but you are either are a cleric, or your not, you'll know. It's unfortunate that we aren't really needed much in the first 80-90 levels, and as such, I was forced to solo to 90, but it taught me how to play my class very well, only lacking in the group healing aspect, which I have grown in leaps and bounds since I decided to "Show my guildies what I could do" and they much prefer a real cleric over anything else. It also taught me to think outside the box, how to use every trick in my book. I don't just sit back and punch a button, I chain stun, use ramparts, retorts, marks, and I pull, every tool I have. Can other classes do more? Maybe, but should we all roll up the same class? I am a cleric, I always will be, some of you will understand what i mean, and in the end, it's not about which class is better, it's about the people playing it, the personalities. Mercs aren't people, and we can't all be shamans.
Roxxanna I tend to agree with you and even here on this thread you can see clerics have differing opinions of their spell sets and what value they bring to a group. (Oh and I'm scared to see where Adaire would have ranked me on her list *grins*; we never really got to do a lot of grouping outside of raids when we were together.) Non-traditional highlights of my past many years: Being the sole puller (and corpse dragger w/o losing faction hits) in Halls of Testing (east ToV) when our "rent-a-monk" would have to leave. Pulling on Kael and original Plane of Hate raids when our "rent-a'monk" would have to leave. Soloing Vex Thall keys for 20+ guildies and friends Pulling, tanking and healing all Anguish key slots for 30+ guildies and friends Being the single person to take most guildies (and a lot of friends) through "Death Row" in Plane of Justice to see mauvvin and finish their PoJ flag after doing the trials. Didn't need a tank or anyone else, just me + whoever I was bringing through. Mass tanking adds for Hollowshade Moor tradeskill drops for players Days after the Morell Thule+Erollisi Marr server merge, meeting a cleric from the top guild Magister when he came into Sol Ro's Tower to start soloing and found me there (he said I was the only other cleric he'd ever seen doing that besides himself there).
Impressive...........most impressive, that's quite a career, I'm afraid it puts mine to shame, although you can add me to the list of clerics soloing through Sol Ro's Tower, I felt so proud of my cleric when I took him down, and sad that there was no one else around to see it.
The sad thing is, if you notice there really isn't anything on that list for current EQ. More because the keying changed (no more loot fests to gain access) or the raids don't have the group requirements anymore than anything else. But having a use outside of healing (when no one else thought it could be done) was pretty fun.
In my opinion, it goes beyond the numbers game, of coarse the numbers are important, but its also knowing what to do, and when. Like knowing sometimes its best for the group that you run away and come back to Rez (a hard thing to swallow) or casting invuln on your guildie, taking yourself to the top of the aggro list and dragging the train off to a safe corner and die. Both of which I've done.
To me, that's what makes it so impressive, the amount of help to fellow guildies, that's how I play my cleric, self sacrifice, be it time or her meager life. If I spent half as much time leveling as I have helping my guildies, I would have been 100 ages ago.
Everyone I think will have differing hurdles for this. For raids, it could be ... Being able to heal more than your fair share of people successfully (without going OOM). Being the only person who recognizes that DI, Shining and AI wore off the 2nd in line tank and reapplying so they're ready to go when needed. Reapplying these buffs between waves of adds so tanks aren't left defenseless. Being high on the heal parse (not always important but sometimes can be) Finding additional ways to contribute to a raid beyond healing ... but without jeopardizing your key role. Ones willing to break out of their traditional "light, remedy" mold and try new things, figure out how new spells can be used in various circumstances Being the one who patiently explains, yet again, why things are done a certain way Being able to adapt mid fight on healing style (anything from being swapped to different group OR being able to adjust spell ratio based on mana so that you go low but not out by end of fight, etc.) Not being a a$$**** For groups it could be ... Healing so that tank hits full health right when the mob dies every time. Acting as pullers so your true DPS can stick with what they do best (as they do more DPS than you do and you can pull as well or better than they can) Being on crowd control duty if needed Being able to salvage a sticky situation (saving a group from a wipe) Being the one who patiently explains, yet again, why things are done a certain way Stepping in to take some hits while you channel a heal off on the key person who may have died without you doing this. Not being a a$$**** And I'm sure a myriad of other things. There have been some folks I'm in awe over (they seem to be able to compute core game play mathematics in their head on the fly.
Clerics have the best tool set for the main priest role of priests, healing, and best ways to improve the tanking ability of tanks. A large number of the deaths in my raid groups would have been prevented if I had access to awesome gem downtime heals like clr2.0 and divarb, or had as many quick cast heals as a cleric. How often are those actually needed at the group level? I don't really know. The group deaths I remember from recent stuff are mostly from mistakes like running off without invis, or a mob pathing the completely wrong way when fade was down. But I only really group with raid players, I haven't felt threatened in group content since the pre-nerf RoF raid copy missions. Most group content is tuned towards having a merc heal, and all 3 priest classes can outperform a merc with an autofire key casting light-equivalents and group heal. Any content that requires more than that is locked out for a large portion of players who don't put more skill into playing than hitting a cast social for each box while tabbing between 3 screens. Clerics shine when their group or tank is on the verge of death, once that threat is gone, the primary role of priests isn't as important anymore. And the question becomes 'What else do you have?' Clerics certainly have answers to that question, but they are less appealing than the other options. When players put effort into playing well, clerics and every other class can be awesome and get things done faster and better. But when the goal becomes to meet already low bars with the least effort possible, then all the support classes suffer.
Show me a cleric soloing or moloing a named in current content. I am not talking about spending eternity doing this.
Last time when most people needed clerics was in UF era. Lvl 91 cleric didn't even tasted how to be a cleric. Another person - I can agree that it is amazing to be a cleric if you have a mage and chanter in group. But - not everyone is so lucky. Worst problem for cleric class is that devs hear only those who are happy where they are - those who always have a group (husband with bot, their own bots, etc).
Uh ok. Come to bristle and and I'll show you. Or I can bet a few other clerics who know how to do this could show you. Eternity is a long time and what you are asking minus the last bit isn't difficult in the least. I think saying "don't take a long time" is a little ridiculous too. I didn't say "clerics can do everything solo as Faast as a raid rwaaar omgzorx" so adding that little comment to the end may eschew things but I think you maybe are focusing on the wrong thing too. Most clerics wouldn't even think it's possible (or be able to do) what it is you are suggesting. All I'm saying is the class is more than most give it credit for seemingly you too. We can all come up with crazy scenarios but that's not sane.
Assuming that you are still raiding with D'Pikey, you can 100% molo a current named. Load up a decent DPS set with some good quick heals, summon a clr merc and go face tank a named while DPSing it down. I am the worst class in the game to tanked a named in that situation, and that's how I molo'd Bloodsucker this weekend while soloing some DH HA progression. I wouldn't be surprised if you had better DPS than me while doing that because of your tanking/melee related abilities. My merc went oom and I had to struggle to do any damage while not dying for the last few percent, but that shouldn't happen to a clr.
Hmmmm, maybe your right, why play a cleric at all, maybe they should just get rid of them, and hey, why not pallies too, since there not the best tank, and get rid of the second best puller, dps caster, and hey why not some of the races too, after all, shouldn't we all be playing only the best choices? I am soooo glad I'm not in a guild that would bench their cleric because some other class might be marginally better. Too many people have lost sight of what role playing games are.
The devs most certainly don't "hear only those who are happy" lmao I can guarantee they are more aware of class balance than 98% of the EQ population. This game (well the boards at least) will always be filled with malcontents and folks who cry wolf. For the most those folks just aren't very good at EQ. Oh and the first bit of what you wrote simply doesn't make sense
As others have said, it isn't purely a numbers game. But, that being said, numbers (ie: heal output) is the biggest part of it, where nothing else beyond that matters if you're not putting up the numbers to sustain the target / group / raid. Running a 6 heal (or 6 heal plus ward of certitude for the heavy stuff) multibind is a major advantage in that regard. Though admittedly for most group content, which seems to be the focus of this thread, it will be a ridiculous amount of over-healing. But still nice to have on reserve if needed. For raiding it is standard operating procedure for many. But, all those numbers don't matter if they aren't going to where they are needed most. This becomes much more of an issue with raids, just due to the number of people involved, but is still very important in groups. The exceptional player will do what is the best course of action at the time, and with a fast reaction time. That isn't unique to any particular class. For clerics though, we have a lot of possible actions we can take, and I'd argue that the better clerics can properly triage the situation to do what is in the best interest of the group / raid. Less critical or trivial actions get placed on hold or are delayed until more critical ones are dealt with first. Multitasking is a huge part of it being a god player, but so is putting all those task in some sort of priority system. Survivability gets overlooked by a lot I think. You can't heal when you're dead. You can go full "tank" non-visible gear / augs and still not run out of mana, and you're survivability be much greater. Also you get the bonus of making fun of some tanks by telling them you have more AC (admittedly, displayed AC, not true AC, but that's another topic) then they do. Watch your aggro, use your AA's properly, gear up accordingly, pick a good powersource. Healers tend to get priority protection in groups, but you have to protect yourself too. Using all of your abilities, as warranted. This may mean the more, let's say "non-tradtional", things others have mentioned, such as stunning, pulling, crowd control, blurring, main / off / ramp tanking, DPS, battle rezing, corpse recovery, invulnerability buffing, drawing attention of mobs away from groups for retreating in some capacity, etc. But mostly this means using all of your traditional healing mitigation abilities. AA's are a big example here. Seen heal logs posted here where clerics use little or no activated AA's. Everything has a use and a proper time to use it. Crystilla has a nice guide on AA's and such; an exceptional cleric uses all of them and know when to best use them. The biggest thing though, is communication and teamwork. Again, this is not unique to clerics, this is what makes an exceptional player exceptional, of any class. Does everyone know how to get to and from the event? Does everyone know how the event (unless it is just a regular static exp grind group) works, whether it be a group of raid? If they don't - you help them out. If you're doing a quest that is a non-group task are you making sure everyone is at the same step and everyone is caught up and your progressing as a group? Is everyone properly buffed? Are you giving everyone a chance to participate, allowing them to tank / pull / dps / crowd control etc if they want so they feel included and part of the team? Are there any vital mechanics or group / raid wiping possibility because a group / raid member missed something? If so, did you make sure everyone is aware of them? Are there any mechanics that especially involve clerics / other priests, such as the drum in Bixie I; does everyone know their role and order? As a cleric do you need to cure anything? How many counters? What type? Are other classes helping you cure; specifically pally splashes? If you have multiple tanks in group with multiple healers, who is healing whom? Do you have a third spire rotation? What is the order? Do you have a TB / MGB rotation? When are you going to use it? Do you know the healing and playstyle of all the other member in your heal team, and are you adopting a playstyle complementary to it? Who is going to drop healing off the MT / OT to do AoE healing? Who is recasting buffs / DI's? Are some tanks damage spiking; are they tanking multiple mobs; do we need to divert more healing to them, if so, who is changing targets? Do we have any helper NPCs; if so are we buffing / healing / DA'ing them? Do people need rezs; do any healers need a divine rez; did they get a call already or do they still need a rez? Are you all using heal discs at will or staggering them; if so, by what order? Are tanks giving you a countdown before they start an event / engaging; are they letting you know when their better discs are dropping so you know when to best use your discs? Admittedly many of those were raid examples, but the point still stands that an exceptional cleric, I'd argue, would have the communication and teamwork abilities to address those situations. And some other small things as an afterthought. Splitting plat / vendor loot / collection items. Staying, when possible, for people to finish a lesson burn in progress. Asking what other tasks group members need / are working on next, and if they need help. Rebuffing them before parting ways. Telling them you're adding them to your friends list. None of which make you a better player per se, but certainly a nicer one that people will like playing with.
Oh, and clerics can certainly solo / molo current names. No, it isn't going to be especially fast, like a pure dps class. But battle frenzy, twincast, cotf chest click, high (well, high for us) DPS spell weave, TU if applicable, divine avatar, first spire (if you can afford the opportunity cost of not using third spire), "bashy" AA pet, +/- glyph helps. Throw in some proper survivability gear, metal ps, VoV self HoT, contravention nuke / heals, +/- merc and you're set.
Well as entertaining as it might be to watch people argue over how awesome or how horrible their class is, I don't think this was the OP's intent when asking her questions on why to make a cleric and then how to do well as a cleric and further improve your ability. Granted the way the second question was phrased made me chuckle because I knew it would turn into a measuring contest for some and draw out a little elitism, my attempt to deflect from that with humor in my previous post failed. A few have mentioned most of the selling points though here already,especially Tours post there above me as well as Crystilla and her guides. As a warrior you get my perspective from a tank. I have boxed a cleric on many raids before so I have a little experience at least in the raid game. What differentiates a well played cleric to an exceeds expectations cleric to me can be many things. To me first and foremost is knowledge. Knowing the game, not just that a cleric is a healer, but knowing what every other class brings to the table and the mechanics of each class and of each raid. Being an intelligent person will come through and show as also being an intelligent player. Situational awareness, reaction speed and the ability to adapt to the unexpected are all abilities that can be the difference between average and exceptional. Don't judge a players ability at just the heal pars, it will never be able to give you a full purview of your healers abilities. Look at the spells cast as well. Look at who is rezzing the fallen and rebuffing them. look at who is assist healing and not just spamming one tank only. Look at who isn't afraid to and continues to ask questions. Look at someone who is always looking to improve, even if they are already exceptional. Look at someone who is intelligent, patient, understanding and has the ambition and desire to do not just what is asked of them but to take it upon themselves to do more. Find someone who does that and you have found yourself a cleric who stands out from the crowd and is exceptional.
This is a strong point I think worth expanding on. You always need to put numbers into context. Let us take, for example, a common mechanic that involves a single named and several adds where the adds need to be killed or otherwise taken out of the picture fast or you risk wiping. With the exception of necros, we make it a point to emphasis that if you're high up on the named parse by not the add parse, you're doing something wrong. The point being that what needs to happen is that the adds need to die, and that high numbers solely on the named, as good as they may be, was NOT what was needed at the time. For that reason, people will not normally run raw heal parses. Not just do they have their own little issues beyond the scope of this post, but they don't tell you the complete story. That person "low" on the heal parse was "low" because they were busy, rezzing, buffing, group healing, AoE healing, calling corpses, augmenting their group's / raid's DPS, busy with some other critical task, doing some sort of event mechanic, etc. All of which need to happen. For that reason, guilds will tend to check cast logs instead - a record of every spell cast by every person (or just healers / clerics in this case). Not just does this give you an idea of how each person approaches healing and how to best coordinate and pair them, but it gives you a better representation of how they are contributing to the group / raid. You can't have everyone on the MT / OT and not healing / rezing / buffing the rest of the raid. Nor can you have the reverse and not having enough healing on the MT / OT. And this holds true for whatever priest class, Sirene_Fippy. As mentioned earlier, higher numbers are certainly good - but they need to go to the right spot. And, as SanoBard alludes to, they need to be taken in context as part of the bigger picture.
