Why can't Rogues be viable on TLP?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by WokeCat, May 5, 2021.

  1. WokeCat Augur

    As someone who played for P99 for years, it's surreal to see how badly Daybreak ruined the classic experience.

    In true classic Rangers and Wizards are both joke classes. And I am glad that they are viable on TLP, but it's surreal that they made two classes who were truly terrible in classic and made them optimal, but then took the Rogue class and made it completely useless.

    In true classic Rogues bring very respectable DPS to any group or raid. Why on earth do they bring subpar DPS on TLP? It's really dumb to have a class that can't tank deal less damage than a Monk or Ranger, who also bring way more utility. Honestly, I would be surprised if Warriors don't out DPS rogues in TLP as well.

    Extremely disappointed, and honestly would have just stayed on P99 if I knew that this company had re-written the game to make the Rogue class not even a viable pick. And no, I never said Rogues can't be played. I've leveled Clerics to 60 as Wizards before, but this doesn't mean that Clerics are a viable DPS class, just like stubbornly playing a DPS class that doesn't even deal good DPS ... doesn't mean that it's viable, even if you are able to do it.
  2. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Rogues do better dps on TLP in classic than they did on live in classic by quite a lot, but if you are looking at Monk damage for comparison you are doing it wrong because on TLP Monks are horribly overpowered in classic and it takes a fairly long time for the other melee to close the gap.

    That's due to changes to the live game over the past 22 years (AKA "power creep") in particular the Innate Damage AA for melee benefitted Monks vastly more than any other melee class & Rogues benefitted the least from them.

    It's a known issue & there have been pages & pages of posts about it already along with a plethora of suggested "fixes". Basically if you want to play Rogue, do it, if you want to play the Top Dog melee dps pick a Monk instead on TLP.

    TLP is nothing like "true classic" you'll want P99 green for that experience.
    Bardy McFly likes this.
  3. brickz Augur

    fwiw I always invite rogues over wizards. Most wizard players are useless and that's when they aren't afk. Rogue players are usually pretty chill but you sound like a spastic so idk
    Lucentio and Duder like this.
  4. Appren Gnomercy

    Yeah, wizards are pretty crap for normal day to day XP grind (outside AE group) until FT+mana regen kicks in after a couple expansions, I dont mind rogues in my groups though.
  5. Seraphix Elder

    I honestly have no idea why the current group is unable to make even minor changes that would make a few classes a lot more viable, but they haven't and from what it looks like, they never will. I wouldn't bet on EQ getting any significant low level balancing ever again. It is what it is.
  6. Arctodus Elder

    Rogues do not catch up until PoP.
  7. Umul Augur

    Wizards are respectable DPS on dragon and planes raids in classic. And they also are amazing at taking DTs lol.

    Wizard is probably right next to rogue for worst class ever to play solo on a truebox server lol. If one is guilded and has friends and understand how to manage a blue bar, wizard is actually pretty fun.

    If one is soloing and /LFG you will not enjoy your TLP experience as a wizard and likely complain about all the boxed enc/clr/mage combos running around lol.
  8. Arclyte Augur

    Rogues are more than viable on TLPs. Everyone's damage has been increased and the game is far too easy.

    The only "problem" for rogues is that monks exist as they are. They obviously do too much damage (without even equipping a weapon). If the devs rightfully took the monk down a few notches I think the game would improve for everyone, especially rogues.
  9. TLP Addict Augur

    Wizards are pretty good DPS in classic outside of sky, prior to 40 they can delete mobs in 2-3 casts, 40-50 they slow down a bit as mobs hps jump up, in Kunark/Velious 50-60 they are terrible unless you can use rains which isn't always viable depending on group makeup.

    Keep stocked up on conc/clarity pots, fire/cold/magic awareness, but still they are probably the class most gimped by lack of focus effects.

    Unfortunately most Wizards are terrible, nuke until oom, announce to group they are oom and afk while medding, then wonder why they/their class has a bad repuation.
    Appren likes this.
  10. TLP Addict Augur

    10 commandments of Wizards from P99 wiki.

    • Thou shalt not blast a mob the tank has just started fighting
    • Thou shalt not over-nuke
    • Thou shalt not Rain/AE when adds are in camp or even possible
    • Thou shalt not run when a mob aggros on thee
    • Thou shalt assist the main tank and not manually target
    • Thou shalt inform the group regularly of thy mana level
    • Thou shalt not expend mana killing fleeing mobs unnecessarily
    • Thou shalt announce Harvest
    • Thou shalt root when a mob has aggroed on the wrong player
    • Thou shalt stun casters when possible
    Feel free to ignore 6 and 8 they aren't important outside of P99 and 9 is questionable because they probably won't move anyway.
  11. Xeris Augur

    Also afaik, MOTM hugely impacts rog backstab. Even still, rogues are roughly equivalent to monks in POP, if both classes are bis.
  12. TLP Addict Augur

    Sure, if you like playing on Agnarr I guess.
  13. Glowerss Augur

    I hate that there's some weird thing where people think TLPS only go to PoP. Rogues are not just viable but excel on a TLP. They just are subpar until Luclin and only really start to shine PoP and beyond.

    Play past the first month of PoP and you'll see rogues do exceedingly well.
  14. Mithra Augur

    Rogues do well in nearly all eras but a 10% dps boost would make them actually beat monks more often than one out of fifty fights.
  15. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    It's monk damage that needs to be brought down not Rogue damage bumped up.
    code-zero, Kutsuu and Chatoyan like this.
  16. Zanarnar Augur

    They need to revert the unarmed damage calculation change on TLP servers to fix monks. I don't see that happening with their "one codebase to rule them all" setup though. This allows monks, especially epic 1.0 monks, to do huge dps. Fix that and you'll bring monks back in line.
  17. Foaming I Drank Bleach IRL Once

    Rogues are a lot more competitive than most people accept starting in Velious. Very few people (monks especially due to population) are even close to BiS in an era. Rogues benefit from a ton of raid weapons every expansion Velious+ and a lower population. They absolutely need a boost in classic and a smaller one in kunark.
    Triconix likes this.
  18. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Really they need to remove Innate AA DPS lines until TDS unlocks, remap the first 3 ranks of Destructive Fury to OOW instead of Luclin like it was originally, and increase the mitigation value on DoTs from mitigation of the mighty to account for DoT revamps.

    That would greatly help power creep on early TLPs for all classes DPS.
    Skuz likes this.
  19. Triconix Augur

    Title of this why can't rogues be viable the first four to six months of a TLP because from then on, they are more than fine. Yet again, another case of people playing the same 4 expansions over and over and complaining about the same problems that exist as if it exists forever. The definition of insanity on full display.
  20. Kylo Classic Augur

    Just need to give the rogue some nice weapons in classic