I missed the warrior chat the other night so I figured I would post it here. Would be possible/plausible to give warriors a tanking/dps stances like most other games now days? But to even things out make it so warriors can only switch b/w the two every 30mins or hr keeping them from being over powering. This could be done so it makes warriors have more options for group/raid dps roles when there is no need for us to tank b/c of extra tanks. It would be nice to group with other tank friends or participate in raids and not be a sink b/c even clerics can out dps us. Bring us in line to match other melees regular dps but maybe only half to 1/4 of their burst damage. This could be worked to give warriors use of 2handed weapons or dual wield again (b/c sword/shield is more dps now than either of those). Could also work out ways to make it so warriors could be a interrupt, slight debuffers (like accuracy debuff ect) when others are tanking by lowering our aggro while in dps stance. AA/Spell request (and off topic from that, aa wise can we get battle leap/stun leap reconfigured so they are just short hop animation making them usable w/o messing up positioning, leaving the regular leap aa for the long jumps) Someone had mentioned taking flash of anger off the timer with group ac buff and dodge buff, I'd like to see that. Maybe take Ridcule's mitigation temp buff off the same line as clerics mitigation buff line b/c right now (and even in voa as a warrior I had to block the mitigation buff so it would not over ride the clerics leaving it useable as a taunt.) Can we get the timers on endurance spells, 7th wind(wind line) and rest separated? The Wind line is useless as it is b/c it is more beneficial to continue using the Rest line b/c it has a short reuse timer. Possible to get an AA line to reuse to reduce Storm wheel blades and some more aa for reduced aoe taunt? I'd think it be nice to make it so warriors are better able to keep aggro on multiple mobs w/o switching targets while pally/sk stay ahead in single target aggro if they use stuns on top of their aggro abilities. Although warrior's are not getting upgrades to finishing blow can we increase it to a mob being at 40 percent or 50 percent hp before it has a chance to activate? It would actually make it useful. How about a group mage hunter buff that absorbs half of what our self mage hunter buff does? A prebuff aa to absorb damage on a sinlge target for xamount so to help keep person from dieing? They have some things like this in EQ2. Can we get a detachable timer for skills? The hotkey skills window just takes up space over regular hotbar but the timer is still useful. Maybe a reuse timer (in larger white font) pop up bubble when highlighting abilities on cool down? (not needed persay but would be nice) Also can we cut the AAxp needed for leadership aa cut in like half? I mean those would be nice to have and be useful but just tedious messy mentor system to get them over regular xp/aaxp and takes much more xp to get them than regular aa as of now. Alright that is more than enough blabber. Rem peoples they are just ideas.
From what I read of the warrior chat (granted I only made it a few pages before I got bored) it was "warrior suggest something" "Eld says no, we are working on an improved taunt"
Most of the talk was about pallies. Honestly I think warriors should be given priority in taunt over multiple targets with aa to reduce aoe taunt, whirl blade spell line to being 1min or 30secs each. This would make us attractive to use as tanks near end game in group content again.
the damage component on whorl blade would still put you below sk's and paladins for ae aggro in groups since they can get aggro without breaking any potential mezzes (paladins through healing).
I was also not able to make the IRC chat for warriors and was extremely sad to see how poor it turned out for us. Once again basically not a single warrior was there that had any idea how terrible our class is currently in almost every way compared to knights. These are some of the things that I would like to have brought up if i had been able to make it: 1. Increased Range on aggro: All warrior aggro abilities need to have an increase in their range. Most of our activated AA abilities are 50 range (blast of anger/knee strike), and Ridicule/Krondal's Roar/gut punch have a 100 range. Knights with range focus have 270 range on all of their aggro spells. This is just way outdated in today's game for a Tank. Even increasing the range of all the activated AAs to 100-150 and our aggro abilities to 150 would help us out a ton, and knights would still have almost double our range. You can't even hit a large mob with a high hitbox with 50 range abilities while you are tanking them. 2. Broken shared Timers: Flash of anger should not be locking out the field guardian line, commanding voice, and Champion's Aura. The other big broken shared timer is Forceful Attraction locking out the Stormwheel blades line. None of these sharing timers MAKES ANY SENSE. Please fix these. 3. Decreased reuse time on aggro abilities: One of our biggest weakness is the terrible reuse time on our aggro abilities compared to knights that can spam their aggro non-stop. We need another round of Hastened scowl, Hastened Blast of Anger, Hastened Gut Punch, Hastened Projection of Fury, Hastened Instigation, Hastened taunt, and a new Hastened AA for the Unbroken Attention line and the Ageless Enmity ability. I appreciate the round of hastened bazu. 4. Positioning Tool: Warrior's need a way to quickly position mobs in a way similar to either one of the Knight abilities. Either a copy of Hate's Attraction with or without the aggro component (Warlord's Attraction) or Divine Call (Warlord's Call) 5. Hastened Fortitude: In the past, Knights have for some reason gotten 3 more ranks of Hastened Deflection than warriors have gotten of Hastened Fortitude. We need at least as many ranks of this as knights have. Their deflection discs (well every single one of their discs actually) already lasts 70% longer than Fortitude due to their buff extending AAs working on their discs, there is no need for them to have faster reuse times to. 6. Instant cast Fade: Howl of the Warlord has a .5 sec cast time, and we have no channeling skill, making it impossible for us to fade if even a moss snake is hitting us. All melee classes have 0 ability to channel any of our AAs that have a cast time. If you could make the AA Concentration work on all of our AA ability casts I would be happy with a 0.25 cast time, but if that is not possible I think you should change the cast time of this ability to instant for any pure melee class. 7. Broken AAs: In the most recent patch hastened bazu was fixed for Krondal's roar, but our new ability on the Scowl line (Ridicule) still does not work with our Hastened scowl AAs. Hastened Instigation's reuse reduction works for our Area Taunt ability, but it does not work with our Enhanced Area Taunt ability. The 3rd rank of Call of Challenge has broken this ability. If it lands it used to last until the timer wore out. Now if you use it after buying the 3rd rank with the snare, it has a chance to fade every single tick (usually happens on the first tick). 8. New "warp type" Leap Being the parent class of the Leap abilities, I would love it if we could get another Leap that functions like either the Paladin "Leap of Faith" or the Bard "Lyre Leap." This would be nice because, unlike furious leap, these work while you have lev on. 9. Warlord's Bravery increased hit counter: Warlord's Bravery could be a decent warrior ability despite its very very long reuse time(<50 min), but it currently has a 15 hit counter that basically makes it worthless. It doesn't last for more than a few seconds with just 1 mob hitting you. This either needs to have the hit counter raised to something like 60+ to even have a small chance of lasting its already short ~50 sec duration, or to just remove the counters completely since it lasts for such a short period anyways.
10. Grappling Strike decreased reuse: I would like to have more ranks of Hastened Grappling strike, and It would also be nice if these hastened AAs worked on the "Press the attack" line which is a copy of this ability, just in the opposite direction (on the same timer) These are just a few of the ideas I have had, I will probably post some more later.
To be fair, if you read closely your points 2. 3. 4. 6. 7. were brought up. Not sure how I missed Hastened Fort. Never really had a problem with hate disc range but feel free to start discussion on it. I personally would like to see a lot more ideas to improve Warrior survivability in groups.
11. Reprove War/Pal/SK usable Reprove is currently a Pal/SK only ability that would be perfect to help warriors fill in our HUGE GAP of not being able to do anything other than flash if we are about to die and are trying to last until that next heal is coming. Make this ability be on the same lock out as Ridicule so we have to either choose a 1 tick vie or to have more aggro and I think it would be perfect. FYI this knight combat ability gives you a 1 tick vie for 9: Mitigate Melee Damage by 90%, 28072 total. Currently our biggest vie that we get from our ridicule is a pitiful 3: Mitigate Melee Damage by 50%, 7812 total. With Knight's INSANE SELF HEALING (higher than any healers in their groups in raids) there is no reason we shouldn't at least be equal to them in this short term combat ability melee vie.
Forgot to mention something in this one 2. Broken shared Timers: Knuckle snap also shares the timer with stormwheel blades and forceful attraction. Makes no sense. As an aside, knuckle snap could be made mildly useful if if had its own timer and they increased the hit counter to something that wasn't rediculously small (5 hits really?). Maybe if it was 30-50 hits, it might last close to its already short duration. Or just remove the hit cap completely.
12. Major Hold the Line improvement: You said you didn't want to improve the currently terrible "resplendent glory" AA which increases incoming heals by 0-9% for 1 min, despite paly's having increases to incoming heal abilities that make it look like a joke. But it would be nice if Hold the Line could be increased to be more in line with the paladin healing increase abilities. The normal 5% increase wont put it anywhere near the realm of the paladin abilities unless you gave us at least 3 more ranks of 5% each, making it as high as the paladin's worst one. We would need 10 more ranks to put it in line with Armor of the Inquisitor (while lasting ~1/6 of its duration with the negative drawbacks too) Currently maxed Hold the line AA: 6 ticks (WAR AA) 1: Set Healing Effectiveness to 15% 2: Decrease All Skills Damage Modifier by 25% 3. Decrease All Skills Minimum Damage Modifier by 25% Vs. Current max Armor of the Inquisitor - lasts ~ 3.7 mins (PALADIN AA) 3: Set Healing Effectiveness to 64% 7: Increase AC by 600 First Spire of Holiness - lasts ~1.5 mins for the entire GROUP (PALADIN AA) 4: Set Healing Effectiveness to 30%
Just to give you a few bits back. 1. Didn't bring it up because it wasn't an issue for me nor relayed anywhere as being an issue nor and issue for any of my guildies. Also this looks like it would be a disc request not an AA request as far as I can tell. 2. Broken/Shared Timers have been brought up time and again and it is an AA chat not a disc chat. 3. Was brought up but since hastened Roar wasn't working couldn't provide examples at that point with things as they were intended to prove anything. 4. Was brought up several times in different ways. 5. Was never brought up anywhere I've seen prior to the AA details to be discussed and I've never personally had an issue with it being on that reuse... 6. Has been turned down several times. 7. Enhanced AE taunt and AE Taunt are different AAs why would one hastened hasten the other? As to the others this was about NEW AAs not fixing old ones. 8. We have been told previously no new leaps. 9. I'd already written that AA off as useless.. to paraphrase Elidroth - Some AAs remain useful some dont. 10. Press the attack not being hasted was brought up. With the removal of push announced it means it will be needed a lot less. 11. Both of which are essentially meaningless.. 3 hits which is gone in 1 or 2 hits *shrugs* both are just noise when tanking. 12. Both resplendent and hold the line were brought up. So point 5&9 which were never mentioned elsewhere weren't brought up because (a) I didn't know someone wanted it brought up and (b) didn't see it as an issue personally. If you don't like what was done by the people who could be there make sure you turn up next time to give your views. Or just PM Elidroth now with them as he will probably add them to the list or give you a response with regards to it.
The Gut Punch nerf was a message that debuffing abilities like this will never be useful in the group game for Warriors and we should focus on self-based abilities instead. There's way too many %vie/%rune abilities that all conflict with each other.... that possibly don't even stack with our innate class abilities. Instead, how about a 6/7/8 hit parry buff? That gives us a guaranteed and fast re-use 1-2 rounds against a single mob that we can use to compensate for a bad round/incapacitated healer/big AE without locking out FoA/Fort for stickier situations. Add Flames of the Valiant to that list too.
Are you kidding me, you would be against getting reprove... It would take almost no work for the devs to add it as a warrior ability b/c it is already made. It would be an amazing ability for us to actually be able to do ANYTHING other than flash when a mob is about to kill us when we are waiting on that next heal. Vies do not stack yes, but the highest one takes precedence until its gone, then it goes to the next one. The only other one we really have is the 10% reverse proc buff one from Brace for impact which is already made worthless b/c of Shinning Armor (but that's another discussion). Though I would be fine with a few hit 100% parry counter ability, but I really don't see them giving us that in addition to flash. They would also have to make and test the ability which would make it much less likely for them to actually do it. Why I suggest just adding warrior to the usable list of reprove b/c it helps fill that roll and it is already in place for the other 2 tank classes. And I'm sorry if I came off as attacking any warriors that actually did take the time to show up to the IRC chats, I wrote that when I was angry and it was late after i reread the chat log. I was extremely disappointed in how it went. I know I shouldn't really complain when I wasn't able to show up. It was pretty much just the Paladin show for the entire thing. I know some of the points i made were brought up and I'm grateful for that, I just wanted to go into more specifics for some of them to make it clear, or I just found them important enough to reiterate. I know that some of it isn't related to AA, but it can be hard to get feedback from Aristo. Since the chats are so focused on your class a lot of the time you can ask Elidroth about it even if its mostly spell related, and he may or may not speak to Aristo about it. Doesn't hurt to try if it is important.
It's a potentially large enough that we aren't going to get it free, while effectively being too random of a survivability boost to rely on, all while requiring we spam yet another button every 15 seconds. Compare this to Flash of Anger. It's refresh dictates that you must use it tactically and you are generally guaranteed not to get facerolled by the mob you're tanking when you hit it (by melee damage at least) Intelligent use > mashing and praying. A proper Warrior disc should be the first.
Just because you can use it every 15 seconds doesn't mean you don't have to use it intelligently. Knights can spam it non-stop pretty much b/c why not, they can heal themselves if they actually get low on hp. We could use it every time we hit <30-40% hp to help give healers a little bit of a buffer to get heals in. I suggested that it be placed on the same timer that Scorn/Ridicule is on so we could decide to EITHER use one or the other. If we don't need more aggro at the time, which one would be your choice? Why are people so against clicking useful abilities anyways, it makes no sense to me. They aren't going to give us anymore big passive boosts, so any upgrades we get are going to Have to be activated. Please stop arguing against something that would potentially be an amazing tool for our class at little to no work for the devs to implement. Oh and yeah your right, I forgot to mention the Paly epic click to their bag of Healing increase abilities that make ours look like a joke. Another 40% healing increase they can use every few mins.
This is actually why it makes a great Knight ability, the power to mix large random avoidance in with activated healing. I'd just prefer a refreshable counter parry buff to do what's essentially the same thing in a way that would work better for the Warrior class (see: Aegis of Kildrukaun)
And like i said, I would be more than happy with that kind of ability as an alternative, they just already have Reprove in place and would take almost no work to add us to the list of classes that can use it. I just think we would have a much better shot of getting that, but a copy of an Aegis type ability would work just as well.
Huh, I didn't know about that. Is there a reason we don't have an Extended Fortitude AA then? (I'd really like an Extended Furious too, but Fort should at least match knights.) I'd really like to see this for our aura. The aura gives no warning when it's going to wear off so I'm almost always in middle of fighting when it does, and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it.
I didn't mean to rake you over the coals on your idea man, (I FULLY appreciate ideas) but I'll admit I'm using Reprove as an example to make a point that without access to healing, our mitigation abilities need to be MEANINGFUL. Aka every time you press that button it does something and you notice it.
Dude we are never going to get healing, Elidroth said that. That leaves us with 3 options for saving ourselves if we are about to die. A 90-100% vie that we activate when we want to (already in place for knights), A rune we activate when we want to (I doubt they will give this to us b/c of the aggro from true runes but also a good possibility), or an aegis/100% dodge type ability (that would be upwards scaling and we all know how Devs hate those). Any one of these things would have to have a moderately short reuse timer to allow us to pick when we want to buy a few extra seconds for the next heal to land to be useful. In my opinion that is the warriors biggest weakness at the moment. We are 100% dependent on the healers saving us every single time we tank. Knights don't even need healers for anything other than Boss mobs. Warriors should at least be able to eek out a few extra seconds if they are fast enough to react when they are low on life. Any of those 3 options would accomplish that job, and I would be fine with any of them really.
