Well thanks for help all , it go alot better . I grouped in najena up to 16 today and it wasnt all that bad , most of the time charm would last the entire duration . it will either break really fast or last the duration .
It was via PM on a now banned forum account (yeah, I'm sure you'll have a field day with that) but there was a public thread about it also in the caster section by my original forum account, Silv. If you're bored you can search a few years back.Personally, I wouldn't waste the time. You've already made your decision which we are obviously not going to agree on. If you wanna go with it doing nothing for charm then that's on you. I'm relaying the information I received because of the speculation which was mainly brought up because of heroic stats (that started the whole debate in recent years). But if you want to "win" the argument lets say it does have no effect on charm - it still affects rolls on several other spells... unless we want to debate that too. With 2000 CHA on Live I'm not really in a position to parse 100s of hours for you because I could obviously not test the levels available on a POP TLP. I'm just relaying what I was told by a dev in a private communication which I shared to the active Live community a few years back. I have 0 to gain by lying about this. So you have the original quote/thread by Absor or Prathun (? dunno which) around 2005 or so that stated it and then was confirmed again in the past 2 - 3 years. Perhaps not being able to hit that magic "spot" in Classic does make it worthwhile at that time but coming and saying it has no effect for the multiple spells (including charm) is just false like I originally said. We have this debate every TLP launch. If you want to argue otherwise I'd love to see these extremely long parses proving it. I've never seen them in the Caster/Enchanter area so apparently they didn't want to share. Odd.
I don't think you'll find many here saying charisma has zero effect on charming. I think you'll find most here saying charisma above 100 or so has much, much, much less effect on charm than does mob level and magic resist.
Don't jump on the charisma train, there are more than a few threads around here debunking the usefulness of that stat. While I wouldn't personally say it has no effect you will be far better off considering level of mobs your charming along with magic resistance debuffs. If you can tash or malo your charm targets, as well as pick mobs a little lower than your level you will find charm, lasts much longer. Also note enchanter's first charm isn't all that great to begin with. Note to any enchanter that happens to be soloing, your animation benefits from pet buffs over the years so it may outperform charmed mobs into the late teen levels. (solo only) you can't control the pet so it only attacks when your hit so much less useful in groups.
My charms on necro usually last a long time, often to duration, especially when I can get a tash or malo on it, and most necros have horrendous charisma. I think mine is like 50 or 60. At such a low charisma, comparing an enchanter who has a ton of it, our charms basically work the same, it is kind of hard to see charisma being a use for charms.
I'm no enchanter pro.. But the auto allocation of enchanter stats is 25cha/5int So, theirs obviously some sort of merit to an ench going charisma heavy... plausibly for lull/mez... But given the fact that charisma is considered a main stat for ench; I assume it has 'some' effect, even a negligible one, on charm... Since charm/mez is the overall specialty of the ench. I personally think it does Something, but not enough to care... Just my 2c..
They do... just in the actual area for Enchanter topics. So... suppose any skeptic spent time reading them... yeah. For some reason, aside from instances and summoned pets the code is the same, but new TLP think that it's unique from live. Show me that spell data please. Oh wait... TLP servers use the same as live servers. Darn. Did you not get that yet from the multiple patches that either screwed TLP or screwed Live to accommodate the other? PS - whoever- I'd LOVE to see the parsed charming stats because the community has been trying to do a good run for years. We'd love to know how you accomplished this.
I have no idea if the links still exist, but at one point there was quite a bit of testing done on this by neckbeards. The TLDR version of testing stated that CHA effect on charm duration was so low as to fall into the + or - variation of the tests, i.e. it was single digit percentages. It may very well make *some* difference, but it's negligible, and RNG will play a much bigger role. I've played quite a few chanters over the years, on TLPs, live, and test. For what it's worth, I remove all my starting points from CHA and put them into STA and maybe 5 or 10 into the str or agil depending on what race. If I could make an Ogre chanter, I'd never make anything else. In the real world, what chanters need is hit points and AC, as you spend a lot of time getting beat on. This is especially true in earlier expansions and servers, where keeping yourself in rune reagents is prohibitively expensive. /shrug. I have 85 CHA on Agnarr right now, and routinely charm white/yellow mobs to full duration. That's also been my experience through years of playing various chanters, and trying to stack and buff for CHA at certain points. I've certainly come to the personal conclusion that I'd rather focus on other stats. It's not a bad thing to have, but it's not worth sacrificing health, int, or AC for in my opinion.
I always played an enchanter . Already in 99 . So obviously I have also my personnal feeling about CHA but won't develop it because it is irrelevant . The purpose of my post is different because after the darn 18 years of spéculations it is extremely easy and takes about 10 minutes to finish this debate once for all . Mr Developper . Yes, you who are just fast overflying this post . Stop 1 minute and think please . Could you check in the EQ code the Charm spell and tell us whether charisma has a significant effect on Charm or not ? You will certainly betray no trade secrets and you will put a definitive end to useless and contradictory spéculations of countless générations of EQ Enchanters who will then be able to sleep in peace . Do a good action this Day . I know that you want to do a good action sometimes, let it be here and now . Thank you Mr Developper
As an Enchanter you will be expected to charm it's just what people expect in most groups. My tips based on playing Enchanter on a couple of previous TLPs. Don't charm anything higher than you are comfortable with, it's better to keep a blue pet that you can keep control of easily than to struggle with a yellow pet that breaks charm more often and ends up chewing yours and the healers mana. Once you are better geared and more experienced you can play with more dangerous stuff. Always tash and if you have a mage or shaman try to get them trained to cast their malxxx spell on every charm break, I have a charm break hotkey that serves a dual purpose of letting the healer know I will probably need heals and also for the malo caster to refresh it if needed. Don't neglect AC and hps, I typically levelled with AC/HP rings (platinum or velium fire wedding rings) until I got better end game drops. A shield with AC helps too, you'd be surprised how much difference it makes on your survivability when a hasted, dual wielding ex pet is beating on you. The Charisma argument has been done to death, my personal stance is it's nice to have, but not worth sacrificing too many other stats like mana and hitpoints. Running out of hitpoints is a leading cause of death in Norrath and Enchanters need to be able to survive in harsh conditions. Can't always rely on the Netflix clerics to be on the ball, the more time you can give them to react the better.
My best charms have been with HFL Druid. Think about it, something like 50 charisma! PCs aren't the only ones who hate HFL Druids, NPCs do too, maybe even more! Now if charisma has an effect, it sure doesn't make much of a difference between my Enchanter of any race and my HFL Druid. I've never parsed it because I haven't noticed enough difference to arouse my curiosity. Now of course I can only charm animals with the Druid *BUT* I don't think the lower magic resist in general for animals is enough to explain the same success rate. Matter of fact, *IF* there is a difference between 200 charisma and 50 for a HFL, I think DB should eliminate it!
I prefer to charm animals when possible even on the Enc, we ran across this while playing around with a Enc/Dru in Overthere, as long as tash was on both pets I saw no noticeable difference other than the spells themselves. To heck with Cha let the neckbeards put all they want into it. Unfortunately a mob's MR is notoriously difficult to find and we have only impressions to go on. Level on the other hand is pretty easy at times to determine and that rules all.
Lots of threads about this enchanter & charisma stuff... https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/how-many-enchanters-are-too-many.240686/ https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/enchanter-stats-go.240478/ The quote below is snipped from the second link, which in itself references another, older long thread:
I heard that on a Sony dev panel they said CHA is more impactful for ENC. But if you had high CHA; Druid, Necro, and Mage charm did benefit a little. The implication is that low CHA is not supposed to render charming much more difficult for a Necro or Druid. but it does help if they get really high Cha. Most are low CHA races and have 0/negative CHA on their cannon items, so it makes sense. It would be great if they just went ahead and clear this up. My guess is its something like Agility. 200 more agi than the Warrior next to you? Well grats on the 2 AC.
If the difference is not noticeable then effectively it makes no difference. Still have a Enc/Dru pair on LJ in the Overthere level range so may just take an evening and keep track of breaks but so far have not noticed any real difference. Think the Enc is running only about 103 Cha, created with max int min cha (human) so he aint exactly loaded as gearing is only incidental to Cha.
Mykayla's research shows that memblurs and chance-to-proc-memblur-on mez along with chance-to-not-agro on lull resists are a linear relationship with charisma up to 150cha (with diminishing returns up to 255) where cha/10 =+% chance to enact these effects. Likewise initial resist checks on mez and charm (and it's suspected charm breaks on tick) work in a similar fashion where charisma provides up to 15% less resists plus whatever the diminishing returns are on CHA scores between 150 and 255. But I suppose instead of basing your opinion on empirical data you can just assert it does nothing. Comparing druid and mage and necro charms is futile because devs has specifically stated removing charisma from other classes charms was done over a decade ago
If you actually read the hostorical threads, the debate was people with empirical data concluding CHA does have the stated effects, and dandin asserting it does not... out of thin air.
