How many Enchanters are too many?

Hello everyone,

just want to get peoples thoughts on this now that im returning to eq after a long layoff. so back when I played eq I raided with my main as an enchanter, I was fortunate to be one of the main enchanters for raids and from what i remember we only used like 3 enchanters during the raids. so my question is as im seeing some guilds getting formed and ready for the new server launch im seeing ALOT of people in these guilds 10-20 people wanting to play Enchanter. what does 10-20 enchanters do during a raid (just say they all come every raid)? its really concerning me as trying to choose my class for this launch. I dont want o play a class that feels no usefulness or will be asked to sit out on raids because theirs too many of us.

Im not update on the current state of the game and I would appreciate if anyone is in the same boat or any thoughts of this topic.

thank you.

10-20 enchanters in a raid would be lulz. I wouldn't put much faith in those numbers. A lot of people may start on opening day of the server, but fast forward 2 months from now and a lot will no longer be playing or not raiding.

So... to answer your question, generally >2 enchanters on a raid is "too many" for most raids. Lol.

To expand... Enchanters are *ALWAYS* the most heavily played class on the launch of a new TLP. Why? They're OP. Extremely. Most of the people rolling ench without a static will probably quit. Many of the people who don't understand how boring raiding as an ench is will either quit or reroll. There will always be a lot of enchanters, but basing your class choice on the day 1 polls is silly.

Don't worry, there won't be that many enchanters. Huge chunk will reroll when they realize how frustrating it is to use charm and how often you die when the tank is not good, another huge chunk will reroll when they realize how boring enchanter raiding is.

3 is to many for a raid (would be 2 but someone might need to afk for a min. 7 is to many Enchanters for a group.

Heres the thing about chanters. In Classic/Kunark and in some place Velious they are pretty much top DPS or close to it on any given group or raid. This means that for these expansions, bringing 6, 7, 8 chanters a raid is not unheard of. At one point I *think* the highest we ever had on a raid was 9 Enchanters, and as the raid leader I was perfectly ok with that, because when you have 9 princesses charmed in Sky, well, mobs die really fast.

But as expansions go on charm becomes somewhat less effective (That and DPS classes start to catch up) and having that many chanters becomes not as appealing. Other than classic for most expansions we ran with 4-6 chanters. I found we used charm pets the least in Velious/Luclin so during those era I was fine with being down to 2-4 Chanters, but come PoP having 5 or 6 chanters for a certain crappy fight is definitely a boon (I believe one such guild in the top 5 found out what it was like to do that encounter with just 2 enchanters...hint: they wiped a full 6 hour instance)

So the skinny is, it fluctuates. Early in Classic/Kunark having a bunch of enchanters is not only ok, its downright awesome cause of their dps potential. But during the mid expansions of Velious/Kunark that tapers off a bit and then in PoP having a few extra isn't such a bad thing. Overall I would suspect most guilds will run with 4-6 chanters for the life of the server with some uptick for Classic/Kunark. If I raid lead another guild on Agnarr these are the numbers I will run in my raids.

It really depends on whether there are 10-20 mobs that can be charmed, and how many healers you have to keep the enchanters up on charm breaks. You don't even need 10-20 total toons for most classic/kunark mobs, and there aren't 10-20 charmeable mobs in sky/vp. So there isn't really a place where you could use that many enchanters. But if the charmable mobs existed, you absolutely could.

Just as a sidenote to Trevalon's post... since he brought it up...

Depending on your guild and their goals... you may/may not be charming fairies in Sky for the first few weeks. The first PoSky raids they may want to wipe the island to start stockpiling the droppables. The keys can always be bought, so they MAY let 1 or 2 enchanters have a pet... but I wouldn't count on more than that.

Yea, true for the first week or two, but after the first week or two having as many charms as possible should be every guilds end-goal for Sky, that zone sucks horrible monkey balls so anything to make it faster the better. If your guild isn't charming at the very least 4 mobs and ideally 6+ then I dunno what to tell ya , find a new guild , or a new raid leader, is my suggestion lol.

Yeah I totally agree. Just trying to set realistic expectations. The first month (including the leveling, initial gearing, etc) as an enchanter is pretty balls for raiding if you're not in a hardcore guild/group.

I dunno, I guess that just depends on the raid leader. I always welcomed as many chanters as I could on my raids (classic/Kunark), but I saw the value in the charm pets. But I have definitely seen raid leaders who either didn't understand the TLP Meta or they just didn't care to learn it and they don't optimize their raid spots.

Either way, it all kinda depends on your personal guild and what its raid leader wants to do - and of course that is different for every guild.

thanks for your input I guess if I choose enchanter and pick a guild on day 1 I will see how it goes and after time if there are too many of us or if I get left out when raiding starts I will just find a guild that needs me.

Good policy. If this server is anywhere near as popular as Phinny is there will be a huge amount of guilds available. I think Phinny has almost always had over 15 raiding guilds and now have over 20! All of them are completing content and MOST of them are completing all content in each expansion. This means that players have a lot of choice in where to go that suits their needs.

And even if you are not in one of the 20 completionist guilds there are always a huge number of smaller guilds working their way up the ranks if that is something your into.

Glad I'm not the only one.

Just to complete the question .
All the posts are about raiding but not all enchanters are interested in hardcore raiding .
I have played enchanter in 99 and will play one on Agnarr and I don't care the least little bit about raids .
Actually a study of EQ demographics (by N.Yew) has shown that only about 10 % of EQ players are interested by hardcore raiding . This percentage is apparently vastly superior on these forums .

I like to play enchanter in groups .
I like to jewelcraft .
I like to use illusions just for fun .
I like the feeling of the class .
Casually raiding Hate ? Why not but it won't impact the fun I have playing an enchanter .

So no, there is no number how many enchanters (or SK or monks or ...) are too many on a server .
If you like the class just play it . However if all that counts for you is raiding then there are "better" raiding classes .

For a group the most enchanters you would want is 6, possibly with some others out of group. Although ideally a healer would be helpful in the mix. You'd also need a zone with sufficient mob supply to support your charming needs and fodder for the destruction you are bringing.

However, if the enchanters are not charming and the group isn't desperate for the slow/cc/buff utility the case for one enchanter in the group becomes weak. That is on the player, not the class though and would vary according to the group makeup.

The key to playing enchanter is liking playing enchanter. A poorly geared enchanter that isn't confident/good at charming can die a lot. A chanter that can't afford rune reagents and pulls aggro in groups can die a lot. A chanter in pugs with groups that break mezzes can die alot. The first 2 situations are on the player of the chanter, the last one is PuG life.

QFE. This is the gospel. In the same situations you presented, an enchanter who loves being an enchanter, knows the class, and is confident, will dominate -- even with complete noob gear. The beautiful thing about an enchanter is you don't *HAVE* to be a raid geared enchanter to be good. You just have to enjoy the play style.

As Deadshade said... Most of the people who ENJOY enchanter... enjoy it because of what it is outside of raids.

snalish and Galleyan have it nailed. Enc is prob the most dropped class in the game just from how many start and how many make it to even mid levels, charming is work and not conducive to going AFK at all. Cant just call time-out with a mob charmed.

We spend FAR more time in groups coming up than in raids. Better to enjoy the ride and adapt the destination to that. No raid slot no problem not exactly a gear dependent class anyway and eventually the slot will open up. If not there are solutions.

Looking at these forums it seems that 50% of the server is going to be Enchanters. If even 20% of people roll chanter where the hell are all the mobs gonna be to kill since everyones gonna have a charmed pet =/ ?

Never believe polls.
Although you do bring up a good point, taking that mob out of rotation will add up in some places.