The warrior class has evolved plenty. The problem is that the vast majority of the time we get a new ability, it's so weak it's not game changing. Basically everything you mention in these threads as ideas to save the warrior class, we already have. We actually got a rune procing disc before SKs, but the line is junk (Armor of X Runes.) We got an AA proc buff before paladins got IJ (Rage of Rallos.) We have activated DPS abilities that cost endurance (shield topple, vital strike), and some more that don't. Our rune disc is an absolute joke next to Grelleth's skin. Rage of Rallos procs our weapons every swing, and weapon procs are heavily stagnated that it's minimal DPS, and junk next to IJ. Shield Topple and our other activated DPS abilities (bash, gut punch, knee strike) are very minimal DPS too. Vital Strike and Heroic Blade 'can' be so powerful they get people like Shiftie to call for nerfs, but they're not significant beyond 30s parses really, and VS requires a lot of luck. When non-warriors post in warrior threads, they have seem to have the view that it's still 2004 and warriors are about hitting a no fail taunt AA, an aggro disc, and defensive, and auto attacking the rest of the time. In a way, that's not too crazy as we can be 90% effective using ability/disc lines we had in 2004. But the warrior class has all these abilities, most just suck (the same can be said for most survival abilities added in the last decade too, btw.) There is a long list of warrior AA's and discs that need to be modernized, we don't necessarily need a bunch of new ones added.
Firstly this isn't a war thread. Secondly, comparing rage of rallos to ij is amusing. Rage forces weapon procs and is meaningless overall dps. Ij on the other hand is specifically a very nice regulated spell dps addition. They aren't even close to the same thing except they are both procs. I'm still amused that you guys think I'm calling for nerfs. I get it you need a villian so that you can be the hero or someone to blame because your class is mediocre. It is rather funny that you guys keep calling me out by name I must be famous with all the name dropping. The war class ability to organize has been ghastly over the past few years and there has been a lot of helmet wearing bashing of skulls against the brick wall of the same tired ideas. You should try a different approach it might get you somewhere instead of pointing to what I say and being all mad about it. Your activated abilities have like 30 sec cool downs so 2 x a min you press a button what are you doing the other 58 seconds of a 1 min fight? Exactly.
You ignored what I said. I said the warriors have a crapload of abilities, and they all just suck. You're still posting on the assumption the warrior disc/activated AA window looks the same as it did in 2004, which it doesn't. My activated DPS hotkey is hit every ~6 seconds. It has Vital Strike, Shield Topple (15s reuse), Gut Punch, Knee Strike, and bash. Given how the refreshing of shield topple, gut punch, and knee strike works, there's at least one ability being used with bash on every other press. The problem isn't the number of activated abilties we have. The problem is they all basically suck, and have heavily stagnated. One of our more important activated DPS abilities 'sometimes' is battle leap, which has a pretty short reuse time and requires multiple button presses since you have to reposition. Our DPS rot is 2-4 DPS discs, 2 AA buffs with our first disc, another AA buff with our second disc, and glyph on the 1st or 3rd disc depending on the order and fight length (some warriors do brutal first, some do it second), and yes, also rage of rallos somewhere in there too. ========= RE: OMGZ y U compare ROR 2 IJ!!!! That's my point, it sucks. ROR would have been meaningful DPS in 2002, but procs have stagnated so much that procing 510 DD (+~15% crit damage) on every swing is weak. Short of them revamping/modernizing weapon procs, there should be a bonus buff adding to ROR so it grants additional damage procs on every swing, ie, proc an additional 5k damage on each weapon proc. ======== Look. I think you're talking past my post. My post was actually in partial agreement with your's. I agree with some of your ideas regarding AA procs, and bash procs. I just think there's no need to add new lines, we already have plenty of AA lines. A perfect example is mark of the mage hunter. For a long time this ability was weak and ignored. Then in VOA (iirc) it got an outsized buffs and began to provide a parsable benefit on DD heavy mobs. I'd prefer a situation where things like ROR, shield topple, gut punch, knee strike, etc recieved notable upgrades than piling on more similar abilities onto the class. It achieves the same thing, just in a simpler way.
You really think that is all we push lol? To engage Fortitude Warlords Fury Sneering grin Projection of fury phantom aggressor Unbroken attention Bazu(everytime it refreshes) Gutpunch Kneestrike Harassing shout Jeer Stormwheel Blades Rallying Roar 24 secs later Flash of anger(and everytime it refreshes almost) Last Stand Armor of Experience Glyph of the master Field outfitter(every 30 secs or less) Hold the line Mark of the mage hunter Epic First Spire of the Warlord Blade guardian Brace for impact We also position the npc during the entire fight Press the attack Grappling strike Warlord's Grasp And shield topple everytime it refreshes after the first jeer none of this includes dps stuff since I assumed I was tanking.
Update - tanked 4 unslowed with 1 J5 healer merc at level 100 in an HA Was doing 2 and 3 unslowed with no problems. Got close to a death at one point ~10% hp left but I just hit an AE lifetap and dire and bam - back up to 80% for the merc heal. Order of survivability for 4 mobs 1.) Shield Block (this needs a better timer FYI) 2.) Lich Sting 3.) Visage 4.) First Spire 5.) Unholy Carapace (when Shield block died) 6.) Spam 4 single target Lifetaps and AE lifetap when things looked grim. 7.) BP click when Lich Sting wore off note: Kept Stoic (or whatever it's called at 100) up the whole time. It's an extra 15k temporary degrading HPs to help the cleric out. My gear was T1 CoTF Visible with T1 / T2 ROF and T1 CoTF non-vis items Zero raid gear. Case in point: Carapaces and lifetaps go a LONG way for Shadowknights. If they didn't, those discs and spells wouldn't get upgrades. There's a stigma that a tank should be max level before inviting her to a group - and I can see why. Solution: give survivability discs, AAs and spells at lower levels (96/97) and then DPS (dots, spears, nukes in general) at high levels 98/99/100. That helps fill the gear gap since getting RoF groups for gear pharming doesn't really happen with every other Archetype skipping it for T1 CoTF (and I don't blame them). The way the last 2 expansions are linked - it's just bad game design. PS: warriors - your whining about DPS in a TANKING thread.... seriously? Roll another class or start another thread.
^ You popped deflection and only pulled 4? For shame. You know our Survivability stuff Far longer then just the last 2 expansions has always been towards the middle/tail end of leveling right? I think Omens of War is when that started. However even at 99 anything you can tank at 100 in the same gear will be tankable without the lifetaps, and you could use last expansions carapace/mantle. The % of mitigation hasn't been upped since HOT, The max damage cap is a far cry away from what you will get to. Sure you lose some passive healing from Carapace that way and the bigger blast heal from mantle. I don't see either of these solutions providing nearly as much of a change as you think. The other problem with your suggestion is: SK's aren't the only tank. If all tanks are having a legitimate issue (and perhaps they are on the lower end of the curve) then the issue needs to be solved in a way purely changing what level you get what spell isn't going to fix. Does being an up and coming or returning tank suck? Sure it does it takes a month or two to catch up (longer if you've been away for a very long time) Something other then Tweaking 1 of 3 tanks spells needs to be suggested though to have an effect and retain balance.
Spells cast over 201 seconds Roon on 11-Mar-2014 Serriah - 120 --- Baleful Rapacity - 1 --- Baleful Theft - 15 --- Chattering Bones - 1 --- Cry Havoc - 3 --- Defensive / Evasive disc ended - 1 --- Demand for Power - 1 --- Dire Insinuation - 7 --- First Spire of the Reavers - 1 --- Harm Touch - 1 --- Insidious Deflection - 2 --- Leech Touch - 1 --- Leechcurse Disc - 1 --- Lich Sting - 1 --- Mental Terror Strike - 6 --- Ragged Bite of Agony - 4 --- Shroud of the Darksworn Strike II - 5 --- Soul Carapace/Shield/Guard - 1 --- Spear of Grelleth Rk. II - 2 --- Steadfast Stance Rk. II - 1 --- Terror of Poira - 9 --- Torrent of Agony - 1 --- Touch of Falsin - 2 --- Touch of Klonda - 2 --- Touch of the Cursed - 4 --- Unholy Guardian Lifetap - 44 --- Vie faded - 1 --- Visage of Death - 1 Produced by GamParse v1.0.3 44 procs on Unholy vs regular self buff procs.... that's not a small survival boost. Just saying Also... wtf is up with the low proc rates for self buff taps anyhow? I wish I could go to older parses, but I think it's been lowered significantly.
Your point? Your referencing a level 97 disc. Which is in the level range you wanted. And no its always been 2ppm
Innate procs are 2 ppm to limits their power. Other procs are tuned accordingly based on how much healing they want from them or other various effects. If they want more return out of the proc they will slap a proc mod on it.
it also really wouldn't make any difference for SKs and paladins, since the only thing the new disc versions do is increase the amount it can mitigated before it prematurely fades - and in 99% of cases in the group game, that's never going to happen from one expansion's iteration to the next anyways. the whole increasing cap is really just a chase-the-stick for raiders or higher end groupers that push themselves, those discs will NEVER fall off early due to damage taken from a single mob.
