So, has anyone else notice that you're producing about 50% less hate now?. I have a hard time holding aggro against a ranger and monk auto attacking, where before he'd hang around 30-40 on the aggro metre. With less effort. Now I'm spamming Valiant with Demand the moment they pop (less on demand). Even have Marr's Salvation on them. And 75% of the time, they are tanking. Is this intentional? I remember hearing stuff before about decreasing aggro so it'll be more "fun". My raid warrior friend is even having this problem, as well as a Paladin in my guild; losing much aggro from his boxed bard. Or are my JBoots faster this week?
Elidroth did mention that he wants agro to be a group think to manage. He doesn't like the idea where tanks can easily hold agro while dps does anything they want to. I think he envisions tanks being unable to hold agro on their own, but needed the dps to know to handle some of their agro too
I haven't played my war yet since expansion, but on my rogue, I'm having to click every agro tool I have and am still pulling from tanks. This is for regular, sustained grinding. Not for burns.
I had some issues using my dps setup to hold aggro. Now with crush/crush/glorious/consecration and sparingly valiant i am doing alright. You do know demand and valiant give 0 hate when they are resisted right? Also use force of disruption on initial tag (if you are only using disruptive persecution) I cant imagine a world id load Demand if wasnt boxing or kiting... its resisted way way to much to justify using
I've noticed myself having a great deal more trouble with agro recently as well. Definitely not having more fun this way.
Cool, didn't think about using Force of Disruption for the pull (I do only use disruptive pers) My demand lands 75% of the time /shrug.
I've been grouped with mostly merc dps, I'd attributed the change in feel to merc wonkiness. Could well be on me instead
Maybe I'm not seeing something, but I had zero agro issues in Arx 1, PoWar, Void last night on any of my mobs. I haven't noticed any substantial change aside from pets coming up a bit higher than they did before - but that was still a non-issue. Nothing ever pulled off me, even in full burns (i.e., business as usual.) Ill pay more attention next raid - if you are all reporting it, I may have just been lucky? That would indicate something is buggy to me more than a status quo.
What I noticed wasn't huge, and isn't noticeable if you chain phantom. For warriors it is most likely the lack of Phalanx.
I've noticed the difference with the nerf to Phalanx of One while tanking multiples in group, was also quite noticeable in ToR raid while tanking a few of the fallen a the same time. For warrior's keep in mind that if you're chain pulling/fast paced group and you use phantom, any mob that the pet attacks that it was not used directly on will start using the pet agro rules, so either just spam taunt more to get higher than the pet or stand really really close to the mob.
Not an issue actually losing agro when one pops all the things, Pwnz. The difference in feel is when you're doodling around and, previously, just generally rotated through the moderate+ agro things to keep up with chain pulls fine, ahead of dps using their stuff. Now you can fall behind if you're not using the biggies. I acknowledge it's somewhat lame, but I considered getting to run mercs on Burn to be a plus in the column of warrioring in EverQuest. Personal dps has been terrible since Shadow of Fear (tier 3 of RoF expansion) release, playing is getting fiddly as all get out and you always need some kinda support, but agro was a lock. Kinda called this shot. /sigh
.... Problem is if your tagging with Valiant or Demand they are capped at initial hate which 1200... Only Crush/Stun/Force of Disruption/Disruptive persecution have an aggro override. and that 25% of the time it is resisted costs you The cast of a spell that actually lands to gain aggro. NOW if you were say boxing a wizard (which i do) id say arguably it worth loading. Arguably being, It only generates hate, at that point its slightly wiser to load more nukes to generate slightly less hate, but also generate DPS. < Those nukes proc Chronomage pots and your class weapon, which produces more Hate/DPS (chronomage pots are 4750dmg/hate since they have no override) and more healing (which also produces aggro). < Demand does neither of those. Also using Glorious nuke in your aggro rotation allows you to have a twinheal banked, for when you need it with some immediacy, IE: O crap my HP is 30% I had better hit Sorrow/Grief or Burst myself.
Part of the new formula for Everquest, make tanks unable to do their jobs as well, making DPS unable to do their jobs as well, which is especially painful with the stupid high amount of hps on some mobs. I'm not sure who is in charge of pushing all these changes, but I find it hard to believe they play video games themselves.
Nothing changed for me and I have been grouping a lot more then just basing my reply on keeping agro from mercs.
It takes more work to keep control of aggro in general, but I'm still perfectly able to control 2 wizzie mercs plus a boxed wiz if I don't watch TV or read reddit at the same time I'm playing. It's getting even easier now that I'm getting the level 105 AA's that increase aggro--but even without them, having to actually use many of the previously ignored war aggro discs and abilities simply makes our class more fun to play, and the game as a whole more challenging--which is awesome.
Considering Phantom Aggressor is broken (in a good way), I don't think raid aggro is relevant. It was always harder, and still is, to hold aggro in groups. Pet aggro is a big issue. Try moving the raid boss the pet is aggroing and tells me how it goes.... or try it on a boss that KB's you.
There aren't any issues with Paladin aggro that I can see, the issue is with your aggro spell lineup. You should be tagging with and casting fod on every cooldown. DP is a dps tool and not meant to be for aggro generation at all. You should have both crush spells loaded, and again these should be cast each time they are off cooldown. As others have mentioned above these have hate override components that generate threat even when they get resisted and do zero damage. Valiant is good for additional hate and a target target heal but should not be relied upon. Think of it more as a heal with the added benefit of some hate. You don't need to use any other spells or fluff/tricks to hold aggro other than these 4 spells in most cases. If it is a burn mob you can throw your aggro pet at it to get some additional hate early on if required. This frees up spell gems for more useful spells without gimping you on threat. Spell gem slots are a premium, especially as a paladin with so many spells to choose from. Don't waste slots on fluff or filler that isn't needed.
Casting force when the next highest on aggro is in the green isnt a great plan either, you have to balance personal dps, healing, and aggro.
