Starting with TBM (not sure if it was true even before then), a large number of mobs are yellow cons. One advantage of this will be when the level cap is raised, the mobs will still be dark blue and be a good source for experience for groups. On the negative side, so many pulling abilities (like calm) are limited to white con and below. This forces pulling to either use mez spells or FD pulling. While those work, it is still limiting for puller classes who can't use their full bag of tricks. If yellow cons are here to stay, then can we get calm and other such lines bumped up to level 108 like mez? As an enchanter, I would also like the level cap for noctambulate removed entirely. It is a long last mez AA that has a recast timer of at least 5 minutes. It doesn't matter much when you are 105, but for enchanters leveling up, quite often they are grouping with higher levels which makes their mez spells useless since they are level capped. If they could occasionally mez a mob for their group, it would at least allow them to play a small portion of their role in a group. I don't think one mez spell per 5 minutes is going to unbalance the game for the low levels. In addition, we have the challenge that tanks are so good that having 2 or 3 in camp isn't that big of a deal, making the need for pulling very limited. This is going to be a harder issue to solve, but just tossing it in as an item that is affecting the demand of pulling classes. On the raid front, it seems like SK are the preferred pullers. In my opinion, monks and bards should be viable options too. I understand that you don't want monks to tank as well as SK, but maybe they could have something similar to caster's shield of consequence? A rune that reduces the damage that they receive until it wears off. Enough for them to avoid dying from a mob during a pull, but not so much that they are going to be the MT for groups over SK.
Yes, those are the main two although akkapan also involves a little pulling. The point is that if a raid involves pulling, raids should be thinking of pulling classes first.
As a monk, I'd personally skip any more abilities that could be construed as defensive. Having a rune to help pulling in the few situations that require it would just give them another excuse to stagnate monk DPS. I'll pass and take more DPS.
I have no issues parking yellow mobs as a ranger. Snare, then punt. I can't use any calm or harmony type spells, but I can park them using the above process.
I remember when clerics through Pacify could pretty much go anywhere in the game, not so much the case anymore. I remember when our puller would request the cleric to pacify his target, in order to get a clean pull. Now I buy 200 invis pots at a time and learn to beat the server tics. And I definitely won't be pulling mobs in any of the end game dungeons. Yea bump Pacify Harmony and Songs to 108 please, give them the old school functionality back in our new old school Kunark Expansion. Nobody gives a rip about walking around a blue con mob, we can just step on it.
I agree. Many classes CC abilities (pacify being a prime example) are capped by level to even con. When an expansion is mostly yellow con it makes them useless. Raising the caps on many class abilities from even con to a few levels higher would give many classes utility (that they already had but content made irrelevant).
so easy to cc now in group game , i can use my chanter or shm np, if mobs can't be mezed they can usually be able to be rooted. with my shm , if several mobs in an area , i can aa root one , aa root second one too , if more inc, i can aa ae root,all in a few seconds ( all with push back effect ), away from melee range
I play a Paladin and if I get 3 or 5 mobs I just cycle through my defensives, heals and aa's to survive the surge and my group or box polishes off the mobs. For some reason people tend to "save" abilities for some "bigger" mob and end up dying. If I die and I still have deflection, lay of hand/gift of life, hand of piety, grief, reflexive heal, and my dichotomic up. I'm mad at myself not because more than 1 came. I typically box my zerker, shaman, chanter or bst. In either scenario I just say know you're class enough to be able to survive the surge. I actually expect multiples to come on a pull and just makes you better to go through those growing pains. Makes things seem trivial after it becomes your norm. =)
I agree, I would love to be able to use harmonious arrow or any of my pacify/lull abilities. Almost every camp in EoK has 106 or higher mobs in it though
Let me put it another way. Sure there are other ways to solve the problem, but the calm line has become useless as a spell. For some classes (paladin comes to mind), the calm spell is their best pulling option. Bumping up its level cap would just restore the original usefulness of the spell. Note: As an enchanter I would almost never use the spell, as calming before pull takes up time. But for a methodical group that is trying to play it safe, or an especially tricky pull, it would be one more tool in the toolchest.
Paladins best pulling tool is shield flash and armor of the inquisitor. Or shackles of tunare aa if your hell bent on tanking one, moloing in EOK I can if necessary park 2 or 3 mobs before they even impact. But I agree with you, Lull line is essentially worthless. Though even when it was useable slightly it was still faster to Divine Stun and shackle split stuff anyway so it's almost always been useless outside of pre level 64.
divine stun / fade split pull as well, if you feel you need to. Even if the mob is immune it will push them back and separate them. Many tactics to get you where you wanna be
Totally agree with this thread. It would be nice to be able to put the function back into a lot of harmony and animal charm spells for Druids also, since they also have a level cap, rendering them useless for many expansions now. As for charms that do work, they break so often (despite very high CHA), they become too much of a risk to consider. All that enc/clr/dru pacify stuff aside for a moment, I'd also like to respond regarding the 'better' class for pulling. Monks and Rogues in their heyday were the perfect pullers. Going forward, to give them that core ability back, you don't have to compromise their DPS for pulling abilities, such as high damage mitigation with dodge; just give them a short-period regen while they're out of agro (FD or evaded). That way they can't use it in combat, and only for the purpose of being hit during a pull and regening to continue.
The point of the shield of consequence for monks/bards isn't to heal damage during pulling but to increase survivability. Basically you want them to tank as well as a SK, but only for a short duration. If a monk gets injured but not killed, they can always go back to their group/raid and get healed. As for rogues being master pullers, I don't think they were ever viewed as a pulling class. If daybreaks wants them to be a puller, then they should give similar abilities as well.
This literally already exists, tho: lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=137091 Pulling is mostly dead for a few reasons, some of the most glaring being: -relative tank strength to npcs -(relatively) low hp of mobs (attritionquest became dpsquest) -dps efficiencies of multi pulling (ripostes, rampage, rains, beams) -the game being so dps driven in of itself - no more long med times or long CR for wipes -ability farm outs - pretty much every class can ghetto cc or split now in a pinch anyway -content itself...when was the last time you can remember something having to be actually split to be handled safely? It's one of the reasons Monks are in such a weird state these days...their de facto class defining purpose has largely vanished, making them a sturdier but worse rogue/zerk too often. It'd be cool if pulling were a thing again, but given how much the game has changed, not holding my breath.
