Thanks for the great data. I was (am still) planning to post some experiments of my own. Aye it's nice that SPA 59 and 121 stack properly. (EDIT) Actually not sure what you're showing there. Curate's Retort Effect is a melee proc, not the heal from reverse damage shield (which is not nearly as strong). Curate's Retort Effect II 1: Increase Current HP by 4748 Curate's Channeled Mark II 1: Decrease Damage Shield by 792 2: Increase Reverse Damage Shield by 1255 Do try with multiple mobs. Kite em around until they all have it before bringing to camp. I'll just leave it there for the curious (whispers ripostes).
So quick update: currently 101 (pushed hard to get my Dicho spell ASAP - slightly disappointed lol). No issues with actual tanking (when people actually group up), and no issues with aggro. Haven’t really bothered with more than 2-3 mobs at a time. Two biggest issues so far is the lack of DPS compared to when I was an SK (I avoid stun tanking because you can’t riposte if they’re not swinging at you lol), and in the event of solo (not molo), lack of heal procs. Current “group” spell line up is: Aurora Demand for Honor (use this on pull/to pull) Glorious Expurgation (twin heal) Dicho Force Crush Crush Ostracize Wave Splash Protective Allegiance Preservation (aggro modifier - at 103 I get harmonious expanse...will that replace this?) Vs Undead, the crushes get swapped for Undead specific. Molo I swap out group heals for more pew pew / reverse ds Solo (strictly undead) I keep Aurora and Splash, drop demand, load a single target heal or two for use with twin heal When I hit 100, I’d done enough HAs from CotF to have purchased a full set of ethereal visibles, a new weapon (still rocking a 95 shield), and a couple augs. Will this hold me over until 105 and EoK gear or should I look into the TBM stuff (still no mirror piece as of yet - plan to soon for the type 5 augs...ethereal doesn’t have type 5). Been molo’ing the undead mobs in Resplendent Temple, but this morning before work I wanted to see if I could “solo” one of the skellies in Lcea. Yeah he slapped me around pretty good...had to use disc, stun, twin heal, healing AA...and it took a minute to down it. Lol kinda felt like trash lol
memming wave and aurora and splash and dicho is a whole lotta spell gems in group play. Trimming that sub-set down to, like, Dicho only (unless you know you're going to need group heals very frequently) would get you room for Consecration, Laudation and ... where's Valiant? You're missing Valiant, that's a big miss. Maybe Sorrow, or Burst. Harmonious doesn't replace Preservation. Luckily, there's a 13th spell gem also coming down the pike for you.
3 Stuns + 2H proficiency wins over sword&board + nukes. In general, any tactic that lets you wield your 2H weapon, e.g. "Armor of ...", AotI, should become part of your regular rotation.
Yeah, I’ve kind of been running off of recommendation since I’m still new to Paladins and that’s kind of what they had listed and I’ve just sort of updated the spell lines. And why Valiant if I’m already running Demand? Is it for the fast cast + heal, or just the fact it’s a quick add grabber? As for Dicho/Splash/Aurora/Wave...I haven’t honestly found (at my level at least) use for the group heals. I’ve had people body pull by accident, catch the add with Force, pop off Wave and go back to tanky tanky. Splash I like for the cure effects. Rather helpful with undead style mobs. Isn’t Consecration undead only? Or is it just the damage portion is stronger against undead? I’m pretty sure I’ve got it on my Undead centric line up. As for Sorrow, it falls under the “I don’t like stun tanking” lol but looked it up and didn’t realize it was a long stun...I could really use that now that I think about it. I’m open to suggestions/revisions for a spell line up going into 105 (plan on stopping here for a bit and getting a lot of AAs), where it’s more DPS oriented
Correct. Harmonious mainly swaps with e.g Force of Reverence for passive healing. The aggro on Harmonious is nice to have but it's the heals that count.
Valiant's recourse adds agro to all the enemies that know about you, it's "AE" in that fashion. Also it heals you. Dicho does both the things you've listed re:adds, in one spell - agro the add and heal the person that got bonked. Instant cast time. Consecration stronger damage versus undead, and does a half power Funeral Dirge (extraordinarily powerful for "spammable" spell) versus undead. Also just a regular ol nuke, though, and nukes are good Sorrow isn't a stun at all. I don't mean Lesson of Sorrow, that's a huge push spell useful for CC sometimes but mostly bad. Sorrow. Propitiation/Expiation/Grief/Sorrow/Contrition/Penitence is a line of hecka powerful, almost instant casting self heals with longish cool down. If you have on any of AotI/GAotI/Epic/Spire, and land one when you're low hp, they're spell based Lay On Hands. They're one of the strengths of paladin class, from my perspective. If the paladin can anticipate wanting the utility and can spare the spells gems, paladin can load a bazillion "oh snot" self-rescue spells. Pal & SK both get Shield Flash, both get their dichos 1/minute, and both get their AA heal (Leech Touch, Lay on Hands) and SK can hope their Dire double crits (nuke+heal), but Pal can load up to six of these pretty guaranteed full-heals. Can if there's spare spell gems, anyhow. Also the oldest ones prob pretty sketchy in quite full healy-ness by now, but that's never gonna come up functionally.
I've never used the spell set that you posted and think very poorly of it. I looked through my saved spell sets and found one I called "105 Group" so I guess this is what I recommend. Crush of Darkened Sea Valiant Defense Brilliant Vindication Impose for Honor Consecration Wave of Grief Preservation of the Iceclad Harmonious Blessing Protective Proclamation Burst of Dayspring Grief Defiant Stance .. load Splash in place of Wave if cures are needed, mostly wasn't a thing at that level.
As for DPS, it wont be ‘great’ till you do undead, get the AA’s and or get 115, and have fun in ToV. Also something to think about a mon that can be stun locked, even stunned they can riposte you... but lock it down and beat on its rear. Keeping it locked means you wont get hit, no healer required! So add a caster/rouge merc then. For heals, I’d think anything heals you w/o having to target yourself is more beneficial than opposite. Since the new heal thru target of target change I have not loaded/tested older single target heals.
As a rule for most heals to have the most effect especially with the quick self heals it is best to use one expansion behind. Because of mastery of the past this eliminates fizzles completely and guarantees at the least the only thing stopping a successful heal in an oh s$&@ moment is an interrupt. When I raided this was all I ever did. For loading multiple self heals I bound them all to the same key and states with an expansion behind and then worked down to the other 2. With forceful rejuv that gives you six loh when under healing mods.
Grief and Expiation as well as Aurora line never earn space on my bar, whether it's group or raid content. Pretty standard order for current content: Spam: Sincere Force > Brilliant > Valiant > Burst > Force of the Jade Cohort > Protective On Bar for debuff/aggro/survival: Refute (instant with AA, good HaOT, slow/cripple vs undead) Audacity (Debuff and HaOT) Dissident (Instant group heal and stun) Stance (Hps) Preservation (Passive healing and our sub par Aggro mod) Splash (Cure-all/AE healing) In TOV this bar rarely changes. What I would do for a few more spell gem slots though....
Why are your dry/sham not keeping stance/growth on you? Curious on your dissident choice over wave if you need an emergency group heal hopiety fits that bill I’m also dubious of your burst on a spam bar with it’s cool down you are losing hate/dps/healing throughout Also in a raid environment tash is being cast audacity isn’t necessary for the debuff and the aggro is sub par. the stuns are roughly 10k and 11k a piece One crush is 25k hate or 125k over 60 sec Vs 50k hate over the same time frame The crush is 2.5* more hate spamming both stuns are still not as much hate as the 1 crush. I get it if you can stun adds but if and when you need to grab the boss you’re at a disadvantage. I’m surprised on the lack of harmonious since you are dead set on stuns. I know it only works on 115 vs 118 of the stuns but the healing in a raid would be providing both passive modded healing and aggro I agree on the more spell gems.
We (Allayna and I) have a few spells different for 115 stun-able content. Mines: Force of the Grotto Sincere Force Brilliant Protest (Refute) Splash Audacity Preservation Harmonious (stun level capped at 115 though) Protective Mark of the Jade Cohort Propitiation (Expiation) Stance Twin casting for AE hate more then healing (since it lacks worn focus effect) does work well. Nice long undead stun, level capped at 115. Do you swap to Force of the Grotto for yellow cons? Refute's (112 Protest for Honor) redesign has me spamming it now. Very low mana, ++Hate, 20k Vie. It's the new yaulp. Level capped stun at 115, I only use it in stun-able raid content.
We can stun adds and SK/War can grab the boss over our best efforts with ease. Harmonious Light heal is 1 hate (override), also not worn focused. The buff is single target hate on Harmonious Illumination only. The patch to 115 made it useful again.
not as big, Stance is a full third bigger: Frenzied Growth Rk. III 112 1405 2.5s 75s T16 2.5m+ n/a Single 8: Increase Max HP by 28548 (Decaying to 10980 @ 732/tick) Stormwall Stance Rk. III 114 1182 3s 2.5m 2.5m+ n/a Self 8: Increase Max HP by 36996 (Decaying to 14220 @ 949/tick) and Growth depends on frequently inconsistent dru/shm. They do, after all, have their own roles in nearly all battles. At least, that's what I'm told as a warrior who doesn't have the option of maintaining his own better buff and often doesn't have a buff of this set at all Knights can refresh their self buff whenever is appropriate.
