I would like to start a petition to request that Rez Effects applies a 95% spell slow in addition to the melee slow it currently has, for purposes of balance.
I'm all for this! Since you know... there's very little difference in a 5% reduction in cast times versus melee being unable to increase their haste by an additional 130% with rez effects. I suppose the cleric spell haste wouldn't be able to be applied.. but again this does little to nothing to slow a caster down after rez as long as they've got any of their harvests/rods/qm's etc available. This is as asinine as a caster proposing that melee be unable to even autoattack if their endurance is 0. You're comparing apples and oranges. Start a petition to get res effects shortened, or to allow haste to be governed higher than 95% (maybe 150% or something). Why blindly, stupidly request a nerf of half of the eq players to prove a point? If the spirit of what you're asking for is granted, say a 50% spell slow, I'm sure you'll find your own rez effects much more annoying (as you'll constantly be dead) when your group healer is taking twice as long to get any sort of heal on you.
Let's rephrase the petition "Everyone who is not explicitly attending the raid/in the group to make my characters effectiveness maximized, making my time playing everquest more enjoyable needs to have all their stuffs nerfed so I can be the #1 player in my zone/guild, sign below if you agree."
While that would be cool, I'll stick to my original request, thanks for your suggestion though!! Death is intended to be a penalty, and currently other than losing your buffs, and pet for some, and being out of mana, there is arguably a wide chasm between the current penalties for death for casters and melee. Endurance and Mana is a separate issue from Death Penalties, and while there is a notable disparity between Endurance Regen and Mana Regen I will save that debate for another day. However, since you brought it up, while a melee class can quickly recover to 25% (give or take) endurance, melee slow hinders our ability to dps. Casters can recover mana through a variety of means to amounts greater than 25% after death, and then continue to contribute to a group or raid as if death never happened. Balanced? As to hybrids, you would be no more or less penalized for death than melee or casters with the proposed change. Your capacity contribute to a group or raid would be penalized, as a result of dying. This is the death penalty which has been in EQ since the beginning, and while aspects of the death penalty (corpse runs) has changed over time, other aspects of it have not changed. If death is of no consequence then there is no compelling reason to remain alive, other then the inconvenience of having to rebuff.
Other than the penalties for death, there isn't a penalty? You don't say. As a pet class, I have to buff myself and my pet after every death. I think everyone should have to buff themselves twice to compensate. Oh, wait, that would be stupid.
It only presents as a double whammy to hybrids. Hybrid dps is comprised of both melee and spells, while melee and casters have singular dps as either melee damage or spell damage. Currently only melee dps is hindered upon death meaning that only melee classes experience this penalty in full. In order for all classes to experience death penalties in full it would require that casters experience a spell slow, and hybrids experience both. The addition of spell slow restores balance so that all classes are completely penalized upon death. This holds true regardless of how a hybrids dps is split between melee and spells as long as both melee attack speed and spell casting speed are penalized equally with rez effects. This inequality in the penalties of rez effects penalizes four classes more than the rest for no reason.
Seems like it would be pretty hard to compare two differing systems for dps: one that requires a finite resource (mana) to do any dps and one that requires a finite resource (endurance) to do more dps. Got numbers?
Okay, pick any significant raid mob you want that is vulnerable to both melee and spell damage. Have a wizard and a rogue walk up to it and die, then begin. Parse. While mana recovery tools have come a long way the limitation of a small portion of mana being available vs small endurance is fairly one sided when it comes to DPS. That and also casting is thinking and channeling will, melee dps is a physical exertion, so it jives lore wise. Thirdly, anything that messes with casting heals is hugely dangerous to mess with. Messing with heal frequency is probably a much bigger deal than you give it credit. If you are just trolling to troll, bah I got suckered, but if you are truly trying to make a point then please include that 90%+ of melee DPS becomes endurance dependent and address the fact that your class becomes less desirable at the same time that the demand for priests goes up. Mugsie
Trolling would be turning a discussion about death penalties into a topic on resource dependent dps and parses.
Yes, because obviously death penalties should have nothing to do with balancing or being fair, because the death penalty being worse for mana dependents already should be ignored. Note: I wish these forums had left slanted font. You want to ignore casters are mana dependent but say hey, they can act at full speed as soon as ressed. Okay.... no they can't. They also cannot melee past .95 haste. Totally removed the resource dependent issue and viola its totally equitable under your proposed subset. I believe I have fallen for a double trolling, grrr. Mugs
Issue at hand was the death penalty was put in place since melee had and advantage over casters on recovery after death 15 years ago, since once res'd melee could join the fight with little degradation of power where a caster had to sit and med. Now casters have several tools internally and externally that overcome the lack of mana, while melee have no tools to over come the penalty. In addition, most cases melee die more often since they are dealing with close range mechanics that are more problematic than standing from the mob nuking. Reducing or removing the melee attack penalty on death makes much more sense. Ruven
See there is an actual argument that isn't just 'me no like'. Put it to the test of res and parse and still think melee dps consistently beats wiz and mag. Now if you ran it 15 minutes with 2 caster deaths vs 3 melee deaths those numbers would be interesting, but I think melee dps ends up with more overall up-time or less inhibited / low mode and thus overtaking in most situations, but it is actually worth kicking the tires and parsing if someone cares enough. Still that doesn't address the issue of you DON'T want healers spell slowed. If you limit to detrimental / HP, would be a work around. I think balance of the classes has been built around res and contribute ability already, and to mess with it at this point makes for rebalancing issues, ect ect, that I would rather have dev's spending time fixing or making content. Mugs
If you realllllly care about the imbalance between melee / caster DPS on raids, I would say those close range and / or cluster mechanics are more of the problem than death penalty. Having to run a timer that every 45 secs all melee DPS backs out or eats 145k DD means that they face possibility of death or have to lose time running in and out. Also the everyone back out so we don't eat the whatever bad to hit cluster with targeted AE eats a lot of the melee DPS ability to hack and slash. I understand that this is built into balance, I just think its over doing it the last couple of expansions of punishing melee for being melee, while casters have had few belly caster or other mechanic restrictions placed on them since RoF. Mugs
