65-70% crit rate with disconcerting being a 221% crit rate increase epic isnt adding much to that every 60s. There is no magical 100% crit rate for zerkers it doesn't exist in any meaningful parse or raid. Your info is wrong on so many levels. As for ADPS again 50% was a ball park figure its WAY higher. A bard alone adds 33% to sustained and thats on the low end. What do you think monks new synergy adds ? or Beastlords RF/DF ? or the damage mods from SK/Bard ? ADPS is the problem its always been the problem. Go parse a berserker by himself on a combat dummy you would be shocked how bad it is. Classes should be capable of 90% of what they can do without ADPS period it should add a fraction of what it currently does that is the only way to achieve true balance. Not only do you get class balance that way you get raid balance. No one dps class is required. You guys dont want it that way though.
You are full of it. See post #16 and this was back in April. Since then hdex gearing and possibilities have gone up substantially putting 100% as reachable at will with epic for 1 out of every 3 minutes when geared and buffed exactly as I explained.
Try reading that again, Derresh had Ancestral Aid up for his 100% crit test. And he ran that test in TBM, hDex hasnt increased that dramatically in EoK. So no you can't just hit 100% crit chance with epic alone.
I never said you could hit 100% crit rate with epic alone although I did speculate later after my initial comments. I said once you get to a certain threshold in gear, buffs, tribute for hdex that on raids you can hit 100% crit rate at will for the first minute of your burn which is all that matters. Making 2 presses of your dicho yellow mana spell account for 18m damage without any uncertainty about it at all except for bad play. Like I explained. I was told I was lying about the power of dicho and I proved it wrong. I was told I was lying about 100% crit rate in raids at will and I proved it wrong. The only part I was wrong about was when I speculated that you could get there every 3 minutes based on cleaver sharing his avg crit rate of 65-75% as a melee on a 20 minute parse. Base gear heroics went up, normal slot 5s went up, rare slot 5's went up, heroics on slot 7 augs went up or you have access to more augs, base stats via AA went up. Plus all those partially TBM raid geared zerkers finished gearing or retooled stuff for hdex. So yes its a lot easier to accomplish this 100% crit rate now than it was back in april. Never mind your discern disc putting your passive rate up a bunch to boot. SS should go back to being a disc. Discerning needs a complete change taking a page out of knifeplay and eye of the storm in that its not always on and that it isn't something you work in your main burn. Then take it from there but your burst will still be pretty nuts.
I don't mean to say the estimable Cleaver is wrong about his observed crit rate - if that's what he gets then that's what he gets, but it's ridiculous to suggest he's emulating Derresh's documented strategy & having different results "due to the duration of Ancestral Aid". Ancestral Aid is 300 out of Derresh's 3000 dex; among the contributors, Derresh began with 1.4k hDex, whereas Cleaver has 1222, lower even than the 1292 worn I run around with on my warrior. That's not enough to make "the difference", but is symptomatic of different decision making.
The only reason I posted that thread is they flat out told me 100% crit rate for a zerker in a meaningful way was impossible. I was making it all up. When in fact any zerker worth his salt can hit 100% crit rate at will for the duration of their primary burn as was shown in that april discussion.
I didn't say "A", I just speculated "A"! Cmon really? You got confident and started making claims with no evidence and now you're saying its speculation when its proven wrong? I never said we couldn't hit 100% crit rate, and I even agreed that Disconcerting shouldnt have crit chance on it. Everything I've said I can back up, you on the other hand are just jumping around, refining your position/claims as information surfaces. Even still you're completely trivializing the conditions to hit 100% crit rate and how often they line up. It's not something that can be done by yourself no matter how perfect your gear/augs are, you will need outside adps to hit that 100%, and even then its ~1min out of every 10min. Really though I find it amusing that a Necro of all people is going to try to call out a class for hitting 100% crit chance for any duration. As for Dicho, your just flat out being dishonest in your representation of the dps of the ability. Its a 60s recast, just because you can get 2 Dichos in during a burn doesnt magically change the 60s recast (and really if you want to get technical you can get 3 Dichos under Cheetah, but only 2 of them will be under full burn). You can't factor the 18mil dmg over 60sec, you have to divide it by 120s which is when the 3rd Dicho is rdy to be fired. It'd be like looking at swift dots as the 3 dmg ticks/18s (well before the hastening AA), Necros always were quick to mention that swift dot dps is calculated based on its recast not its duration. So just because Dicho is instant and can be cast a 2nd time 60sec into a fight doesnt mean the 2 Dichos dps is done in 60s cause you can't Dicho again until 120sec. So you started off this thread admitting your not the most knowledgeable about Zerkers, yet you continue to confidently make suggestions as to what the problems are and how to fix them. Don't you think its a waste of your time to just throw mud at the wall and hope something sticks? At least one of the Devs knows exactly what the the main problems are, several of us reported in beta our concern and it was completely unheeded. If they want to nerf us they can, believe me none of the Zerkers will be surprised when it happens. But your crusade of misinformation isnt helping or speeding up the process.
You can claim whatever you want read the thread again. I said dicho is one part of multiple issues putting you guys where you are currently. When I accurately said you hit for 9m per dicho in settings you guys said no its capped, it can't do that, no it never always crits each hit. When I accurately explained you guys can hit 100% crit rate again you guys said no thats not possible or controllable or something you can replicate in any meaningful way. Dicho should not be able to hit for 9m twice in 60s regardless if its only twice in 10 minutes in a raid setting that it can. But thats not the only reason you are the monsters you are. I stand by my statement that SS no longer being a disc is part of the problem. As is your end regen to just spam dicho and alliance without concern. As is your new disc being both 100% uptime and crit rate. As is your cripple rate paired with SS and crit rate. Crit rate in and of itself is not an issue. Crit rate being too high when you can pair it with the hardest hits, cripple rates and dicho and it is a problem. Like dumping 18m damage in a 60s period in two button pushes on top of your normal stuff, I never brought up the dps for the ability based on recast. So stop sidestepping yet again. Its the same reason that necros wont see a 28k base dot or lots of dots boosted drastically.
There is no "you guys", I'm not Cleaver and we aren't saying/arguing the same things with you. The dmg is capped at 750k PER HIT as I stated, it just hits 6 times per click (but you'd understand that if you were a Zerker or had a Zerker). The point of it being capped is that its damage hasnt change at all from TBM its the exact same dmg as it was then, the same burst potential, however you want to spin it. It has nothing to do with the sustained dps or burst you're complaining about in EoK, which is what I said from the start. Moving onto your other few ramblings: Dicho can only hit that hard every 20min not 10min, cheetah has a 20min recast and without cheetah its only hitting 4.5mil. Our endurance returns from Sapping + Communion still dont allow us to spam all of our abilities past 10min, most of us are smart enough to not use Alliance 99% of the time which will extended that out. Our cripple rate is the same as anyone in the same grp as us, its a grp buff recourse Fury's Synergy. So I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. I'm done correcting you every step of the way since its clear you're just going to be stubborn and pretend like you understand anything about Zerkers from all your second hand info.
Too many things to quote mills. You continue to say ADPS isnt the problem because if they nerf ADPS it will hurt you just as much. Fact Dicho only does 9m damage because of ADPS Fact you only reach that crit rate because of ADPS you cannot do it yourself. If the first 60s of a 1000s event is meaningful to you then yes you can hit 100% crit rate. So please tell me how ADPS is not the problem again. As for SS make it a disc again and remove the HUGE nerf that was done to it in the process of making it a buff. Maybe burn goes down but sustained won't. You want to talk about endurance regen lets talk about mana regen and the ability for other classes to return mana and the lack of other classes to return endurance at the same rate. If you want to understand a class go play one. Otherwise stick to necros.
Someone in this thread sounds butt hurt. Maybe they should make a berserker. I never understood any class complaining about another class. Counterproductive and makes you sound like a kid who doesn't have as much orange juice as your sibling.
I made a berserker, I am 81 now but I noticed there was no berserker guides and all the google-fu showed me was threads of people saying berzerkers need improvement and how rangers easily out-parse zerkers in 6 minute fights.
Actually, if you are seeing crits/crips in excess of that 750k damage, with an actual hit of only that 750k damage, that means that the ability is subject to a weapon damage cap that should have been lifted back during TBM's beta. That 750k figure is based upon a weapon damage cap. The best way I can describe it, is it is exactly the same cap that restricts you to 10 weapon damage when under level 10, and 14 weapon damage when under level 20. As I recall, Rangers had an issue with it a few expansions ago, I think it was Headshot damage (can't imagine what else it might have been, but I'm not 100% sure it was HS related). If anything is subject to that damage cap, it should be considered a BUG. You should be hitting for the full value of the crit/crip, not just the 750k+damage bonus. That said, I do not know what the ramifications of fixing this bug would be, other than the obvious of increasing berserker dps even more.
Well originally Dicho Rage was 1 large skill attack that hit the cap almost everytime, we complained in TBM beta, nothing was done, then right after launch they tried to cheat around the problem by splitting Dicho into 3 skill attacks of lower values hoping we wouldnt be able to hit the cap. For the most part it was successful, we were only hitting the cap during burns. Now we're hitting it alot more frequently than just under SS/RA. It's one of those bugs that are easier to live until it becomes a huge problem (give it another yr or two).
Actually, if what we were told when Rangers hit that cap, it was basically having to change one value to something significantly higher. The issue would be with testing to be sure that making that change didn't somehow break something else.
Say one was to buy into the premise that seems to be the theme in the thread that Zerks *SHOULD* be the highest melee dps with no rival ignoring, of course, any utility they do bring such as their aura. epic click yatta yatta. Ok Zerkers are the top dps, the question then is, how much more should they be from the next highest? 5%? 10%? If at best a zerker did 330k dps should the next class be at 300k dps? I think what people are trying to point out is that from what I've seen in parses is Zerkers are parsing at anywhere from 25% to 50% above the next highest class. Now you can argue that the other people just don't know how to play their class till your blue in the face but the fact is the parses are coming from some of the top players in the game. The first step to solving a problem is admitting there is one. Zerkers are far beyond any other dps class at the moment which needs 1 of two options. bring the other classes closer up, or bring zerkers down. I'm not advocating for a nerf, if the first option is the best solution then that's what should happen.
