Raid Changes coming in July

I still think it's funny that Jamie and other TL members think this has anything to do with loot...

We don't want loot... we want to be able to avoid you. That's all we want.

We want the freedom to be able to log in and enjoy EverQuest without having to take sides in some petty war between TL, Apok and RoE.

We want to be able to fight Nagafen in a raid with 17-32 people without having to deal with you ksing, training, charming, mem blurring or of the other absolutely absurd drama that is going on.

We want to actually play the game and not spend every night in an endless fight so that you can feel superior.

Truthfully at this point if TL/Apok/RoE/Rosen got their own instances and the rest of the server shared one instance I think that would even make me happy.

You guys are a cancer to gaming and we as paying customers should be allowed to avoid you... Not be forced to fight in your petty and miserable war just so you can feel superior.

Nah, not everyone NEEDS to raid. They might want to, but then it's up to them to find the time / ability to get on and sit there for hours, to kill the raid bosses.

I was brainstorming with the guy and revealing something in his logic that would help us, not help the server as a whole.

If you'd stop having a boner over my posts and calm down. You wouldn't have jumped to some absurd conclusion that I was advocating that change.

Additionally, quoting someone and then massively changing the quote to suit your needs is embarrassing yourself.

What are you talking, those are DGB words in that they believe competition is part of the game, so me using it is not belittling anyone. Now making snide comments about how long someone plays or imply that they have nothing better to do is. It is a game so there is in fact a competition involved especially when it comes to raiding. In the thread you quoted I didn't put anyone down for not competing, simply restated what the stance that DBG has to end game raiding which is in fact competition for a raid target. Try a little reading comprehension before going off on some long rant and then at the end trying to push your instance agenda to convince me that it's the right thing to do. I can care less if end game content is instance or not.

Another fine example of how you can't please everyone! I'm just happy for more xp at later lvls. I'll get to raid targets in time. I'm enjoying that I've gotten to exp in zones I never set foot in during classic.

With these changes plus the previous changes people are getting 10x what they were initially offered and what they should have been expecting. Not surprisingly, it still isn't enough. Instanced 'raids' or nothing. At this point I'd actually like to see that happen on the TLP, give them what they keep asking for: Instanced raids.

Naggy Example:

1) Instanced zone with 54 toon limit (just like Live)
2) Mobs up: Naggy + the Giants.
3) No major changes to mob mechanics/abilities.
4) Naggy is a real raid mob now, 10x HP. 320,000 is about right for a raid mob.
5) 30 minute timer to kill all the Giants and Naggy or event resets.

The number of mobs + Naggy's HPs means mindless zerg = wipe.
The hitpoints and timer means pets alone can't come close to getting it done in the time frame.
Guilds will have to develop actual tactics and strategies to beat the event.
Guilds will have to field legitimate raid forces of Tanks/Healers/CC-ADPS/DPS.
Said toons will have to be level 50 and well geared (LGuk/SolB/Planar gear load outs) to survive and do their jobs.

That would be an actual raid that needs an actual raid force without changing much at all. That is exactly how this 'raid' is supposed to go, minus all the cheese that has been dropped of these 'raids' by game changes and player 'tactics' over the years. No one could complain unless these raids as intended aren't what they want, but instead a loot pinata that can be dropped by 2 groups at any given time. Would solve the problem of releasing Kunark sooner since it would take most guilds months (if ever) to develop the guild roster and strats to get the new events down. Make it happen Dzarn, then sit back and relish the tears. It would be even better to have Absor give the classic raids a refresh, but I'm not quite that cruel.

So in other words, you want to fire up Everquest and not be forced to play Everquest. Got it.

Top end raiding has been competitive for 16 years. If you couldn't figure out what top end raiding was going to be like, that's just buyers remorse.

Your rationale is absurd.

All of these threads are hilarious. They keep going in circles. Just come to terms that the haves and have nots will never see eye to eye.

With that said, they're never going to instance any dragon/God/whatever that wasn't already instanced. Arguing for it is a lost cause. While the population of this server is insane, and it will take longer, eventually more people will get a crack at these mobs. The top tier guilds will move onto bigger and better things, as this loot will become obsolete to them (not until Velious). That's how it was back when this game first came out. Sucks, but there's no changing it.

This post summarizes why instanced content is important. It allows good members of the community who desire a fun, enjoyable gameplay experience to avoid aggressive, petty trolls who play largely out of a desire to "feel superior."

These types of players are a small minority of the server, and the vast majority of players should not have to deal with their ridiculous antics to enjoy the game.

I've not yet heard a strong or valid argument in favor of the toxic, childish raid scene that exists on this server. It is enjoyable for only a handful of players that have little real commitments in life. The rest of the server should not be penalized for this.

"Classic" Everquest was different because most remained ignorant of raiding, mobs, and most in-game content. There were not large populations of players who had experienced high-end content clamoring to experience it again. This server changed many things. And it's time the raid scene was dramatically changed.

The changes, as I see it, are less about "better gear" and much more about organization and mobilization. Gear will always be a factor in any MMO, to some degree.

My prediction is that the new spawn method will discourage guilds from just sitting on top of the spawn spot for 8+ hours at a time. You might see guilds come in and wait a while, and then give up. But I doubt even TL is going to just sit on top of all the boss spawns for such potentially long and unpredictable times.

What I bet you will see instead, are many more trackers watching the planes. In this case, the fastest mobilizing guild will win. Occasionally, you will have a guild that got lucky and was already there when it popped. They take a chance, and their luck clicked. So TL won't get ALL the bosses. But outside of random luck, guilds would really need to organize if they want regular boss kills.

I don't see this as a bad thing at all. Two guilds sitting on a boss spawn, and then DPS racing it down? I bet this very infrequently happens after the changes. They would both have to be willing to sit there basically all day.

You realize you jsut did what you said i was doing right? hahahahah!

This really is the truth of the matter, I'm not really sure why so many people get their nickers in a bunch over the few raid targets that are available, most servers in EQ except for VERY low pop ones historically all the way up until GoD were dominated by 2 or 3 competitive guilds, I knew I was going to be playing casually this time around, much as I did for the majority of Classic/Kunark/Velious back in the day. Would I like to hit up Naggy and friends for some CoF love sure, but I'm realistic that when I signed up for this that I wouldn't have the playtime to be on every night to get the spawns.

Anyone who thought they were going to level slow, take their time and the raids would be waiting for them when they got to 50 is out of their mind, the goal of these changes honestly is so that they can instance the XP zones, which was needed in the end because of how high the population is. But for everyone to EXPECT raid loot? Sorry, going to have to work for that, mobilize faster than the other guys, first in force, first to engage, bring a bigger gun, that is how it was in classic, in kunark, in Velious and in Luclin, PoP was the first Xpac that saw a relaxation of this mode as once Time was "instanced" (Originally only 1 guild could be in time, at a time, but every raid could spawn its own set of bosses after the other guys finished) THEN the Uber guilds started stepping down off of blocking 100% content, because the end goal could be shared with no cost to them. GoD onward takes it even further with nearly all raids being instanced.

This. This guys said it all. great post.

You're pretty much spot on. It doesn't matter how long the window is on a raid target. If a target is in window, we have a tracker on it. If someone wants to show up and sock it, we'll sock it until they go away or the mob spawns. Rosengard Guild has sniped us a few times because we don't sock when possible. They stealth socked by logging off at the target lol. Sneaky jerks.

couple of questions about these changes:

1. will the changes to the old world raid boss's be carried over to live servers like the instances?
2. because Naggy and Vox will be "buffed" will the level 52 limit on them be finely removed?

You are right... Gregolo.

I took a smoke break and thought it through and you are completely right.

I don't want to play EverQuest... I did hardcore eq raiding, hardcore wow raiding, hardcore rift raiding. I have had my share of world firsts and topped logs as healer and dps... I have done that and I don't want that.

I want a nostalgic everquest experience that I can enjoy.

I shouldn't ask them to change the rules on the server you love. It is unfair and unjust of me.

Now that I've considered it more deeply I think what all of us casuals really want is a "Nostalgia Server"... It's basically TLP with 100% full blown instancing because I don't want a hard core raiding experience. I want an outlet where I can relive the parts of EverQuest I enjoyed... Without the horrible experiences that always come with it.

I still think people like you are a cancer to the style of gaming I love... However I suppose in retrospect people like me are a cancer to the style of gaming you love.

Although I will say it's not buyers remorse... I got my 15$ worth and then some... I just miss what EverQuest used to be and suppose I should accept that it will never be that again.

Yes and people came back hoping all those people that dominated the first time around had all died in fires or something and we could enjoy the game at our own pace this time. But isntead they somehow have even more play time and are all in like 2 guilds.

We came back to enjoy the experience without them... this keeps up they will definately be enoying the experience wihtout us.

So why does Fippy and vulak have like only 20 players combined now or something? I wodner why that happened?

You're not cancer to the game I love. It's just not realistic to fire up a game that's been a specific way for 16 years and then call foul on it's mechanics.

At launch there were far fewer players spread out over a lot more servers. These new changes for the TLP servers don't seem to take that into account at all. Making pre-raid loot more available but keeping the raid targets single spawns is just gonna increase the bitterness and squabbling. At best you move the bottleneck a couple weeks down the road.

Announcing that the raid mobs will only spawn in the base instances will probably just make sure the guilds that have resources to keep players in those instances will be able to block any other raid sized forces from the zone and decrease competition, while getting their loot faster because of more rapid spawn times. I'll reserve opinion on making the raid targets harder until I see how much harder they are, but since they all got dropped within a couple days to small numbers of players that weren't close to raid geared or max level... I seriously doubt they've been made hard enough to make a real difference. The guilds that had less than 20 players take down these targets then, by now have real raid forces ready and wont miss a beat.

If think the fighting, board bashing, KSing and general community toxicity are bad now.... wait till Kunark is out and there are even more bottlenecks, and even more content that the majority of players cant access (there are raid targets in a full third of Kunark zones)

These changes look like a stall tactic to me... I bet real instancing follows in a few weeks.

still missing the point, or deliberately ignoring it.

the game mechanics were set up for a lot less players, with the larger server and very large playerbase, they mechanics needed to be adjusted to compensate.

this is what was being asked for by some, not hand-outs, not to make it carebare, but to make it so it was balanced with how many that were currently playing.