Ragefire Rotation - No longer being enforced by DBG

Except that we just established that it doesn't matter why DGC suspends those accounts.

Aekold, has the Apok guild be the only guild to violate any of these rules? I think from what I read there have been several other guilds or splinter guilds that have broken the rules but that no action was taken or action delayed or action forgiven. Can you comment on this or are you going to make me go look back and provide links to what I think I read??

no, I will not!

Except, there is only one (1) guild {your guild} that wants DBG enforced rotation. There are nine (9) guilds that want to create, select, and vote on their own. Are you not aware of what democracy is, Mr. lawyer?

You also fail to realize that the DBG enforced rotation would not even work anymore. There were 4 guilds in the rotation back when it was in place. There would now be about 10. I would bet that Apok would change their tune about their stance on that rotation after about a week of raiding with it.

Please dig through the forums and locate where the governing body of the of the rotation asked customer service to suspend a guild for violating the rotation, so we can have a benchmark for your delusions.

The promised enforcement for the rotation, which is considered to be part of the rules under the ToS, has not been delivered.

Pretty sure you are related to Aekold, he has problems understanding what I type if I don't use color and pictures...Apok guild is NOT my guild....

Apparently the (9) guilds that want to create, select, and vote on their own are speaking with individual interests. Seems like those (9) guilds are more hellbent on punishing (1) guild at the moment and that the punishment isn't fair and doesn't hold up any longer.

I would have to think that from what I've read, it's not really about what Apok guild wants is it? So why do you have to express their interests or disinterest in it? If you put it back into DBG's lap and made them responsible for it, wouldn't there be less recourse for Apok guild if they continue to break the rotation? Seems like the (9) are angry at the (1), why are you not RUNNING to DBG and putting the responsibility back in DBG's lap.....it just doesn't make any sense...unless you aren't worried about Apok guild at all?

Actually, DBG cannot release themselves totally of any liability for whatever reason. Right after the paragraph that states that is another paragraph that mentions other than jurisdictions where they cannot legally do that. I am fairly certain that a lot of jurisdictions do not allow for companies to completely absolve themselves from everything. Now how that would actually play out in a courtroom, I have no idea.

Except that the same line you're quoting also states that they would be subject to the lowest possible liability in one of the jurisdictions. Given that it's also expressed in the ToS that your account, krono, station cash and anything else associate with your account have no monetary value, you'd be filing suit over an item worth 0$. At best they would refund, most likely prorated, your current month's subscription. That's if a case over an item worth no real world dollars made it to the inside of the courtroom.

Right Ghubuk, just like most concert/sporting event tickets have printing on the back stating no liability, we have all heard about suits being filed and won/settled on. So you are correct, as am I.

Oh, I don't doubt that Aekold which is why I said I don't know how it would actually play out. I was just pointing out that they can't actually absolve themselves totally in most jurisdictions.

By your own rules the minor infractions should only be handled at the next SCHEDULED meeting.


I haven't seen any proof the 9/13 incident was a rotation break as it seems based on the rules the rotation shouldn't have been updated after the kill 9/12

At best it was 2 major issues... but 8/20 was really a lesson too... you have no way to determine timestamps in your rotation. MASSIVE LESSON... should have warrented an emergency meeting.
Your whole rotation is based upon time.

I did make an assumption that you would file a normal support ticket

I am just quoting your own rules with no access to the chat, but the chat shouldn't change the rules.

No, DBG initiating anything at this point shouldn't happen. Let the players on the server determine the way they should handle things. The fact is, the rotation is the culmination of well over 200 man hours of discussion to determine how it would be handled. These talks were initiated by DBG so that our own path could be chosen.

Also, you're overlooking the fact that
A) DBG Initiated the rotations talks, and left it to the players to decide what the rotation would be.
B) DBG was the ones that stated if the rotation was broken, suspensions/bans would occur.
C) DBG Has sticked the official rotation threads to the top of the forums(In which, every major guild leader on both servers has Access too, and have posted to).

• In doing so, stating that this is the rotation that would be followed with suspensions/bans being the consequences of breaking rotation.

D) The leaders of the rotation council, and the DBG Customer Relations manager(@Roshen) have a private discussion on THESE forums that keeps Roshen informed of any changes implemented to the rotation, and to receive feedback in case DBG finds those changes to not be satisfactory.

The rotation council is basically a softball team. @Roshen is the manager who determines the lineup, because he is working closely with the council to figure out what is best suited for each spot.

What you're trying to have done is some company pays to sponsor the softball team, then sends someone that has no skills or knowledge of what goes on within the team chemistry, to make up a new roster and then make sure that every player plays to standards set by the company, regardless of how out of position the players may be.

I'll take @Roshen - Even if he has done things i do not agree with - over the company taking ownership, 7 days of the week, all year long.

But you're not, because you still can't actually read. Funny how not understanding the document you agree to be bound by every time you log into the game can lead to you looking like a fool.

You've 'heard of' suits being filed/settled/won over event tickets because those have a face value. The face value of your account and virtual currency is zero money dollars.

Good attempt with the apples to oranges comparison to cover your misconception, though.

I'm not overlooking anything....DBG said they would like the guilds to come up with a solution...and not once, but TWICE the rotation has faltered because it is player made. player adjudicated, and company enforced. Now there are people crying about enforcement....

After everything you have read here, your thoughts that DBG no longer is enforcing the rotation as it is, WHY ON EARTH would you want to keep it, and have it ignored, WHY ON EARTH don't you want to put it back in DBG's lap and say you are done with it, it's time for DBG to come up with a rotation and enforce it, we are DONE trying. Either you are a glutton for punishment "or" you are not willing to give up something that may mean more structure for you and your guild(s) as well.. How can that be a detriment if you think (1) guild and one guild only is breaking all the rules. (although I know there hasn't been just Apok guilds violations, but they seem to get the brunt of everyones attn") What is it that you are afraid of losing by handing the rotation back to DBG and making it THEIR reponsibility???

Sure thing Aekold, will make a trip to the store later....and no I will not buy paste for you this trip.

Aekold you shouldn't even respond to Melveny, we all know he is just going to troll post you.

I'm betting it's Skelly or Orpheuus on a troll account, honestly. Melveny types like a spastic 11 year old. Skelly is the one who always has a hard-on to seem super intellectual, but Orpheuus is the one who always denies that Apok has ever done anything wrong and likes treating people he disagrees with like children.

I'm just giggling at how fast Mr Neckbeard went from trying to claim they knew something about the legal system to ignoring my posts and trying to troll.

Not even close....just suggesting that the company take back control over a flawed system that has failed not once but twice now. revamp it and take responsibility for it, monitor it, and adjudicate it. No more need for drama between players, let the drama be between players and DBG.

As far as taking Roshen over company ownership....well I've read there are those that think his judgement is skewed in favor of the guild you represent, so I can see why you would want to latch on to him and keep him close if it's true. Meanwhile the rest of the server(s) don't get the same consideration from Roshen and even more thoughts of impropriety creep into the whole raid council, raid rotation sheet and so forth not being completely transparent on a DBG controlled server.....no more secret meetings nor more backroom deal....you should be more than willing to do so as I read you disliked this same contact forming the first rotation.

I still cannot find any other alternative but placing the responsibility or the server rotation(s) back in the lap of DBG and rolling with whatever they decide. At least there would be tangible documentation and rules and such and complete 100% transparency and accountability from DBG and its player base. Alos you wouldn't have to have the feelings you have right now about DBG slighting your "man hours of work" not enforcing a failed system.

are we there yet?

"A failed system?"

Fact: The public forums were in dis-array regarding the rotation and cries for instancing from Ragefire guilds prior to the council's implementation of the rotation. The forums are now all but silent on the matter, meaning the people are appeased.

Fact: 90+% of the guilds are getting what they want out of the rotation. With the DBG enforced rotation, 10% of the guilds get what they want.

Fact: The council rotation has caused the guilds on Ragefire to come together in ways that were completely unexpected. They were in the middle of planning a community event, offering free item giveaways, powerleveling, and epic mob help to the community.

I could go on. I would say this is exactly the opposite of a "failed system."

Continue your little song and dance full of falsehoods - the people aren't buying it.