Pets taking way more damage since patch

It's not going to be easy to test - the change isn't huge, but painful none the less.

I know it's not much but I have a parse where an lvl 104 earth pet is beating down an npc by itself.
It's only one fight before and after patch, so not enough to make any real statistical conclussion.

NPC: a degmar guard(lvl 105)
Pet focus: Enhanced Minion XVII
Gear added: Thassis Armaments(2x Summoned: Thalassic Ragesword)
Buffs: Primal Fusion, Iceflame Armaments Rk. II, Burnout XII Rk. II, Rathe's Strength, Velocity II, Surety Rk. II, Greater Ward of Vie Rk. II

Pre-patch
Damage Taken: 6205660
Time: 742 seconds
NPC DPS: 8363
Avg hit: 6150
Max hit: 17635

Tanking info
Riposted: 28/1446 1,94%
Parried 35/1418 2,47%
Dodged 19/1383 1,37%
Blocked 63/1364 4,62%
Defended 145/1446 10,03%
Missed 124/1301 9,53%
Hits 1177/1446 81,4%
Absorbed 168/1177 14,2%


Post-patch
Damage Taken: 6083726
Time: 688 seconds(Upped Companion's Wrath a couple of ranks so he killed a little faster)
NPC DPS: 8843
Avg hit: 6404
Max hit: 18005

Tanking info
Riposted: 22/1352 1,63%
Parried 33/1330 2,48%
Dodged 27/1297 2,08%
Blocked 56/1270 4,41%
Defended 138/1352 10,21%
Missed 116/1214 9,56%
Hits 1098/1352 81,21%
Absorbed 148/1098 13,48%

Well I did find something

I've used "a twisted treespirit" for parsing pet tanking for a long time, and I was looking back at the DI values for those tests, and I realized what had kind of been staring me in the face for a while (I'm pretty pissed I missed this tbh):

So shielding decreases the DB value for a mob, but not the DI value. The DI value in all of my tests was 576. Based on this, we have to determine what the DB value is, and to do this we need the amount of shielding the pet has.

Post-patch EM focused pets have 35% shielding. Post-patch non-Magician unfocused pets have 0% shielding. This makes the DB value for a twisted tree spirit 3074 (3650-576=3074, 2575-576=1999, 3074*.65=1998). But the DI1 values for Magician pets post-patch are different than before the patch - why is that? I was originally working under the assumption that pets always had had 35% shielding, which means these numbers make no sense. However, I realized that, because of the Shielding on armor, Magician Earth pets previously would have had 44% shielding, and unfocused pets would have had 9% shielding. It appears that previously pets used the entirety of this 44% shielding, whereas now they only use 35%. Here is the data to demonstrate this:

Post-pet-nerf CotF, Shard of Earth, EM 20:
DI1: 2298
DI2: 2874

Shielding: 44%

DI=576, DI1-DI=1722, 3074*.56=1721

Post-pet-nerf CotF, Shard of Earth, No EM:
DI1: 3374
DI2: 3950

Shielding: 9%

DI=576, DI1-DI=2798, 3074*.91=2797

TDS Beta, New Shard of Earth (now named Convocation of Earth), EM 15:
DI1: 2298
DI2: 2874

Shielding: 44%

DI=576, DI1-DI=1722, 3074*.56=1721

Post-5/18-Patch TBM, Miktolka's Shade, EM 18:
DI1: 2575
DI2: 3151

Shielding: 35%

DI=576, DI1-DI=1999, 3074*.65=1998

Post-5/18-Patch TBM, Miktolka's Shade, No EM:
DI1: 3650
DI2: 4226

Shielding: 0%

DI=576, DI1-DI=3074, 3074*1=3074

Post-5/18-Patch TBM, Convocation of Earth, EM 15:
DI1: 2575
DI2: 3151

Shielding: 35%

DI=576, DI1-DI=1999, 3074*.65=1998

Post-5/18-Patch TBM, Convocation of Earth, No EM:
DI1: 3374
DI2: 3950

Shielding: 9%

DI=576, DI1-DI=2798, 3074*.91=2797

So before pets ignored the caps on mod2's, which I had heard before but I guess never really registered with me. Because they removed excess mod2's, pets are now effectively stuck at 35% shielding. I didn't test it, but my guess is this is true for avoidance as well (though avoidance never seemed to do anything significant for pets - unfocused pets with 100 less avoidance had essentially the same parseable avoidance as focused pets).

This is likely why people feel their pets are tanking worse than before. It's pretty unlikely that the devs will revert this change (I don't know if they could even if they wanted to), but it does kinda suck that the tanking ability of pets was tuned around this previously

I don't feel anything, the pet's health is more chaotic than pre patch. Especially as the fight drags out.

Substitute in the word "observed" if "feel" offends you.

You make it sound like it's some sort of anxiety disorder. The difference between pre patch and now is observable - many mage's have complained on this forum and in game. Something has clearly changed, that's a fact. How much impact? That's still up in the air. If you want to use "feel," use it for something that is not fact.

Edit: If you want to comment on the content/conclusions of my post, I'm happy to discuss it. The use of "feel" vs "observe" is irrelevant and distracts from the actual issue pets are having.

Great job testing Sancus. Thank you!

So, TLDR, focused pets went from 44% pre patch to 35% shielding post patch. That is a significant, and unfortunate, change.

I knew something was wrong, but didn't have the means to test it. Glad someone did.

Sancus or Gora,
Any chance either of you posted the findings to the devs or the update thread? Would be nice to see if devs would take a look and (at least consider) make changes accordingly...

I just cant believe what I am seeing again? after the first nerf, it continues to happen?
geez sancus, we thank you for all of your efforts and telling us what is going on here. Say hi to your dad for me low level mage is fun btw. haha

Crazzie

Sooooo... given the unexpected(?) changes to pets due to shielding changes it sounds like it's time for another round of pet re-tuning?!

Let the parse wars begin!

On a serious but also anecdotal note- my Mage's water pet (EM 20) went from being able to tank singles in new PoHate to getting squished with a quickness repeatedly on a blue con debuffed mob post-stat changes. Unlike Sancus, I don't have the extensive parses but when you do the same content every week for 6 months and nothing has changed (actually most parameters probably improved in that time) it strongly suggests that there definitely was a "downgrade" (aka nerf).

I'm inclined to believe this was unintentional especially after that months long pet tuning of 2015. Hopefully those with parses will provide them to the devs to demonstrate that the new system kindof screwed pets.

#1, even with 35% shielding pets are still fine. You can do just about everything you could before with them, and if you can't it's not the pet.

#2, if you actually read Sancus post you'll see he's not trying to insult you, he's giving you actual values to look at, why are you trying to be rude?

#3, I love people who are to daft to do their own parsing and then when someone enlightens them, they act like they were just slapped in the face..


P.S for those who think they will change pets, I'd get over that idea right now. They were never intended to have 44% shielding, and because of that I doubt they'll make any changes..And if they were to make a change to Mage.....Revert Rains GFDI!

All of the pet changes a year ago to balance them properly were based on the fact they had 44% shielding. Even if they weren't intended to have it, they did, and they were tuned for it.

I don't main a Mage so it really doesn't matter to me if they do anything about it but it seems like something they didn't plan on. Or if they did... congrats on pet re-tune #99999.

ps. Good luck with that rain campaign

Start a group...no warrior or sk looking for group? No problem! You find any other classes lfg (if you can find anyone lfg) and grab a mage to tank with the turd. In most zones it worked. So take that group to Plane of War. Earth pet tanks.... this is slowly what is happening to the mage pet in all zones via nerfs.. Not a good nerf for the game.

I read his post several times. He makes sound like it's not a big deal but it is. It's an insult to all mages. Not everyone is max AA with raid gear. Like my other thread, there is two raid guilds on my server recruiting mages. All there's quit after last major nerf.

I don't see my Bst pet taking any more dmg then normal , but POW is very tough zone for pets always has been ,but if you pay attention there you can do it ... But also POW has never been a Exp zone , exp always very poor there ....

But there are many tricks to make pet more tough , if you knowing them hehe ...

Yi Min

Stuff like this is exactly why the tanking gap between a mages pet and other main pet classes tanking pets need to be closed. Just like the gap between warriors and knights was closed, drama to come for this statement, but the gap regarding tanking for necro warrior pets or tanking mode for beast pets compared to a earth pet is massive currently. Or they need to stop nerfing all pets equally when they are anything but.

What does this mean, well it means from here on out making sure pet tanking tools are roughly equal allowing only a small gap from base pet tuning for tanking. Not a 10% gap in base power, 10% more from this ability and another 10% from this making it what for what seemed to be a intended 10% gap into a massive 30% plus gap based on how all those gaps stack together paired with 30% more hp pools. That sometimes creates a threshold situation that can't be met by the warrior pet of some classes reliably.

So the 50,000 hp gap between the earth pet and necro warrior pets needs to be closed some. This occurs with base tuning of pet hp pools as well as adding a version of the AA line Elemental Durability to both Beastlords and Necromancers, it adds 10% to pets hp pools that 2 pet classes are missing.

The innate damage reduction gap between the earth pet and a necro warrior and beastlord warder needs to be closed. This occurs with base tuning of pets stats and adding a version of the AA line Elemental Agility to both beastlords and necromancers, it adds 10% to avoid melee that 2 of the pet classes are missing. This occurs by creating a Theft of Essence proc for both necromancer and beastlord pets so mage pets don't tack on another 26% of unanswered avoid melee from other pets. Less impactful as it only works sometimes but earth pets also proc'ing a 15% mitigation buff on some mobs types doesn't help with this either when other pets have no equivalent proc even if a warrior pet.

Some classes also still don't have companion's gift and healing adept to help support their pets via self healing as well.

Mage pets running away with dps in all forms and having the ability to swap the dps type of the pet via different elementals should be continued but the gap in tanking needs to go.

I agree. Pets were tuned with the 44% shielding, and now that is down to 35% shielding. I notice the difference, and I two box with turd pet tanking with full shammy buffs.

Yes and the past 4 years Mages were given power by rains and when they were nerfed we received 0 compensation, which is why I doubt they are going to do anything for pets.

The % we lost in pet shielding is a huge jump, I'm just not very optimistic you'll see them buffing pets anytime soon, sadly I could think of a very easy way to give back what we lost, which would be enhancing our Enhanced minion, making it closer to what it was, so having a raid EM actually means something vs group, cause right now they are so close together in power there's almost no point in having the raid version vs the group at this time.

The only reason I'm even caring that we lost the shielding is because now keeping my pet up during raids has increased in difficulty and it's not providing any more damage to compensate for the fact I have to heal more.

Triton pet tanks TBM raids?!?!?!?