Discussion in 'The Newbie Zone' started by quakedragon, Apr 19, 2021.
I love the internet
If you are on AB i can help ya (to get Abstruse armor or hit level 85), alot get better (easier) if you are higher and have better armor/weapons. With level 85 (with Abstruse) and J5 merc, i was able to kill all nameds in feerott (and some in Hot)
So let me put this situation here,
F2P, they going to have the worst of worst mercs.
75-110, what say you about them?
My thinking is they reach lvl 82, "wow this game is so difficult now" "wow I'm still so far behind, I'm on expansion 11, everyone else is on 26, 27, and this game is difficult now" "maybe other games is better, I'm just too far behind, no point in subscribing, I'm just so far behind to catch up with everyone"
This is why HA is not the solution if some of you want it to be the solution, that requires people, random 82 MAIN (not someone who already at end game and going over on an alt), they will be struggling, just like myself even though I'm subscriber.
Also with HA, some are broken, and when they do a broken one, it leaves a very very bad taste,
ex. of a broken HA, https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/estle-2-remember-the-dead.274362/#post-4016500
This game is in dire need of a TSS like expansion for 75-115.
"I can PL you"
That's not the solution, everyone struggling is not going to do what I'm doing, they most likely will just quit.
I kinda know what HA is, talk to the teek guy in PoK, but I'm STILL clueless, terribly setup. Like now I know there is multiple zones, which one is easiest? Was I doing one of the tougher HA's? The Brother Estle ones.
The game didn't even introduce me to HA's yet. That or there is too much game spam I'm used to clicking the X button that I didn't know it was useful information.
But again, this game, its in need of a TSS like expansion. TSS expansion did wonders back then, it can do wonder now too.
I mean think about it, they forced every F2P player to TSS, for specific reason "newplayers are clueless and need to be pointed as much as they can because there aint nobody around to follow and ask for directions and/or observe"
Being a newplayer, yes this includes 75-105 yes its very barren, no one to observe, follow, get an idea of where to go, etc.
I have done 4 HA's I barely feel like it did much too. What am I suppose to do like 100 more? I noticed it gives 30% xp when I have the bonus on from the teek. 30% xp, in my 80s, it took like 2 to 4 hours (never done I had to learn mechs). Am I suppose to repeat it again and again, will it be 30% xp again? I don't see this as the solution though.
30% xp sure beats killin a mob every 2 minutes for .3 xp.
A TSS like expansion for 75-115 please.
You're not wrong, but that doesn't mean it will happen. That's just the reality of a 22 year old game that was milked instead of empowered through it's later years. If they ever get around to refreshing the client software, maybe they would pair that with a refresh expansion like TSS. If not, I think HoT is still a great place to start people. They could add a Mega-Heroic upgrade that goes to 105 or 110, and make the 85 Heroic free. HoT could be filled with F2P and others grouping up like it's a level 1 newbie zone all over again.
Maybe it wouldn't work, who knows, but I think it would be worth a shot.
Nah, they could do it. It wouldn’t take much effort and would encourage sales. Throw together a DSH type zone with weak mobs and create tiered areas, where people progress through the zone for 75+. Instances aren’t really the answer it’s hard to coordinate groups.
Take Eastern Wasted for example keep the same zone change some mob levels.
They could do it, but I disagree that it wouldn't take much effort. They work on expansions all year and you see what we get. I'm not complaining about that, just making a point. Making even a single zone designed for a large level range could potentially be a lot of work. People will probably want quests and relevant gear drops instead of just a grind zone to facilitate leveling.
Literally as soon as they release something like this, no matter how they design it and how well they do it, people will complain about how they did it. I don't think it's a bad idea, but to do it right will probably be a lot of work, or they would have done it already.
Oh ye' of little faith...
Im guessing a single complete zone made from scratch, and populated with npc's and quests, of the usual polished quality, is around 2-3 months of work. It could be more though.
I guess only the devs knows for sure, how much work is involved...
Not all zones are created equal though. Huge complex zones like GMM are probably much more work than a "simple outdoor zone" like FM in EoK.
Thats actually really good idea if they could mega scale people to make HoT feel like a newbie zone, but thats just good for a couple levels, when they get to 95, it starts all over again.
I think the scaling from 80 to 115 is very steep compared to 40 to 75.
As in 40 to 75, mobs be hitting like 90 and at 75 400s.
But 80 to 115,
its like 1000 and I'm not even 115 but I'm guessing mobs hit 10000.
So at 80 dealing with mobs doing 1k quads, then 15 levels later, all sudden dealing with 5k quads.
So a good geared lvl 60 could maybe handle 70 75 mobs (tanking for a group).
But a good geared 100, I doubt he could handle 110-115 mobs (tanking for a group) due to steep scaling.
What I'm trying to say, the scaling from 80 to 115 is very steep. aka "dont goto UF those mobs way too strong, goto HoT", ok now I'm too much for HoT, is 95-100 mobs just like UF "don't goto expansion 22 those mobs are crazy strong, goto expansion 23 instead"
Thats where a TSS like 75-115 zones would be helpful, have the appropriate level mobs, and quest givers helping gear up, and giving me good xp to help me get to end game faster. I have nothing against "I would get the feel for an expansion if such thing exists", the thing is, theres nobody around, I just want to get to where everyone else is and enjoy the game.
I honestly would not mind 80-110 if there was a lot other people 80-110 around, but its very barren. Last time I saw actual casual folks was in DSH.
Doesn't have to be 1 zone, I'm saying like TSS, because it was a series of zones.
Cresent Reach till 20, BFM till 35, mesa till 55 (stay in Goru'kar mesa do everything there, 35 to 55), etc.
An expansion that isn't a zone designed for 5 levels, but a zone designed for 80 to 95, 90 to 105, 100 to 115.
Tbh, I think a much more realistic solution could be to retune the xp-curve and the combat-tables for the 75-105 range.
IF it was possible to quickly molo through all the merc/partisan-quests, and IF the mobs/quests gave enough XP to level through the expansions without grinding, Then we probably wouldn't have this conversation.
Content-wise the 75-115 range is already a great experience, that have kept many players happy.
It would be a much cheaper solution to the problem, which is why I think it is more realistic.
It would probably require that TLP and live servers have different tuning though, but we have already seen this to a degree, so it is probably not that farfetched.
And if they throw in some improved shrouding mechanic, then it wouldn't be a lonely experience either.
OTOH maybe the new owners are prepared to invest more money into EQ1, we can hope at least.
The way to do it to avoid affecting TLP's is to have those changes open with a later expansion pack. Like at CoTF release the 75+ changes could come in, or something like that.
Is your PC (player character) on a free account or All Access and which class is it ?
Regarding HAs, those from Brother Estle are some of the harder ones. Do those from Gribble Grobblenobber in Dead Hills. Unlock the mission Scouting Ahead as it is the shortest one and activate the Lesson of the Devoted (AA) before you do the final hail on Gribble for great bonus experience. Repeat this daily until your PC is about lvl 110. The Bixie Hive HAs are also some of the easier ones but can be very puzzling for the first few times. You can also do other stuff inbetween like the daily hotzone tasks from Franklin Teek in PoK, anniversary quests and expansion progression quests. The hotzones do also grant good bonus experience for just grinding mobs. Try to kill blue con mobs.
While a 75-115 expansion like TSS is a good idea it wont happen in the next years just because it would be to much work for the currently small dev team and other expansions are already in development. TSS has 13 base zones while the last few expansions only have half as much and are revamped zones which means less creativity and work involved.
You're the third person I've seen this from in the last month. I always found them pretty easy, along with the ones from Marla. What makes you say the Estle ones were hard?
They are confusing with ambushing and roaming mobs and hidden tunnels. I remember doing one mission with another player, both PCs being around level 90, and we failed over and over on the last boss mob who casted an OPed AE necro dot.
OK, thanks. I never did any HAs that early. I'm ashamed to admit, I actually tracked and tallied HAs back then, and just checked my notes. Started Life after death at 96, Remember the Dead at 98, and never tried The Other Brother til 106. Never had any failures except my third try at Remember the Dead, but don't remember why. All attempts were 3-boxed with mercs (tank, healer, wizzy).
I think the key for the HAs is to not try them with just 1-2 people (2-4 with mercs) until you've outleveled them.
I have noticed many of the people who play this game from 1 or 85 perspective are a bit antisocial, perhaps by design. Many of the 85ish people seem to see others a possible liability to their leveling, and the 115 crowd is distant and aloof to the constent trickling in 85 heroics at worst, or at best want to give a PL or Charge Krono for PLs. The other option is not being strong enough to experience the progression of similar level group content as you merc level up after 70ish or so, instead only go back to older zones like SoD where there are no upgrades in gear (some augs), only xp and cosmetics. And even then attempting the small group content in Field of Scale-Home of the Raiders is pretty impossible on most of the classes.
If the content you one capable of yields no gear increases, and the bazaar upgrades to the 85-90 rec/req are priced to the 1/10th/20th of Krono buying level on some servers. Then without a group, it kind of leads to paying for Krono for gear as you grind xp, or paying for Krono/Buddying up with a 115 who wants to PL you which seems kind of... slimy. Like you are using the higher level people to advance, which may be fine if you plan to stick around and group with them later on as peers but I think many people see it as a means to an end. I don't think anyone likes feeling used. But If I can simply buy a 10 pack of Krono and get max level its pretty much a heroic boost to 115, at least then I can go back and explore old content to my hearts content. Theres very little active low level markets on most servers, so making enough money in platinum to get Krono for gear upgrades is brutal.
How on earth does one fix this? It seems like there is a couple hundred dollar price tag to get caught up. I did enjoy shrouding down and exploring content for xp with my powerful J5 mercy, but after a few hours of killing I ended up getting like 5% of my level at 85. Play a solo class? Most of the high end guilds do not want any more Necros or Shadowknights. Box? I have before, used to 6 box, and it is fun for a bit but quite the chore to set up and maintain, it becomes an entire lifestyle and not something I would do again quickly. This drives me in to the early TLP servers where people are eager to interact and experience together, everything seems new and all of these daunting issues on life do not exist yet.
I did quite enjoy shrouding down and exploring older content on Live, if that system was improved and boosted in xp I could see live servers becoming a bit more interesting. I think shroud xp was killed to avoid PLing, but the current commonality of other PLing is off the charts. I came back to observe and study the game and people, I have done the 1-Max quite a few times before and the idea of doing it again, is daunting. I may or may not do this, but with the state of things I can see why live is hurting on most servers and why the TLP experience is killing it by pulling interest from Live and beyond. I hate seeing that. While the live max people look at TLP as an easy way to get Krono for their boxes on main, I think many of them are very disconnected from what the returning people look at the game like, or the good memories they remember. The social aspects, the exploration, being caught up with the majority of the player base having stepped away for EQ for so long.
A renaissance or a doubling down on new innovation to TLP, or restructuring of live, which is kind of classic (New Kunark and velious) with even more inaccessibility than Kunark and Velious on the TLP servers would be neat. A new Raid geared Heroic 100-110 that basically allows playing through updated Kunark and Velious does sound kind of cool, and a way to bring the TLP back in to live. In content that is not too foreign to them. Or sell a super Merc, or expand mercies to more class types to allow more classes solo options. All of this seems to threaten the max levels who worked for their upgrades through the entire expansions, but most did it alongside players or friends of the previous max level along the way, a lot like the TLP but at a slower pace. But honestly, I don't know if this would make Daybreak any more money, and I know that has to be factored in to what would be tenable.
All I know, is if I log in, I suddenly begin thinking of money or Krono, better ways of catching up, picking a class that is wanted instead of soloable or intriguing, noticing I am as significant or needed less than another persons box, instead of wanting to explore and experience the world with others who are not around. I legit am considering dropping money on enough Krono to catch up on live just to save time for studying or with family in real life. Because I do not want to fake friendship or use people to scheme a PL, it feels wrong. I do not like to be dishonest.
Live 1-115+ is serotonin dominated unless you give up on that, and focus on dopamine along the way, along with little sociability, and there are major downsides to picking one, or the other, unless you pay for max PL as a quick way to engage with all 3. This design is a mess right now. I now understand why after digging in to its history, this was a sandbox attempt at D&D experimented with by different development styles along the way. It is a postmodern mismatch appealing to base human desires of hierarchy or instant gratification, in a way that discourages risk taking with low status new strangers who might diminish time that could be spent climbing a ladder or feeling good.
If I want to engage seriously, I need to find a small group of people who play regularly but coordinating that with real life is a mess. I hate how poorly this game matches with adult life during the catch up phase. Which might be saving many from an addictive experience imo. Something I would be worried about less if the game encouraged better aspects of improving oneself through play and socialization.
TLDR . These are my growing observations, I have written every single step (extensively) and every feeling along the way this time in something much longer than this post. A work in progress with supplemental studies and trends that help add clarity. I am exploring my reaction to things and why, which honestly are some really interesting observations about my own psyche. I am not done yet, this time I am ready to understand what is going on instead of giving in to the grind or rejecting it outright. Cheers.
If the 75-115 expansion (Or 1-115) was separated from the rest of the game, and had raid level loot dropped for group content, and high tier group content from trivial trash, I could see this being a lot of fun that encouraged the people isolated within to team up.
Did all those at L100 as a 3 box ber/brd/shm and to make the final mission in that arc doable it was important to have clicked an item to remove the NPC's aura and a lot of DPS to reduce the volume of the adds that you got while the aura was active. Enough DPS to kill him after dropping the aura 1x and it was cake.
I'm not that amazing at boxing and no actual proper tank (which makes all of these a lot easier) so 2 real people with mercs should be doable.
A few weeks ago, I moloed a mage in nerdia's landing near the dock from 23 (frogs, anacondas) to 32 (panthers and little griffons whatever they were called). It was perfect fun across 3 lesson burns. Plenty of DB, W and Y mobs. Mostly single pulls. Few social adds (stupid bears). With defiant gear, self/merc buffs and healer merc I was never at risk even with two even con mobs beating on me. Easy to get to (GH magus). Great spot. Saw one other player run by at a distance the whole time I was there. Basically a dead zone.
We need a string of solo spots like that from 1 to say 106 (conflagrant available). Tutorial and starting city newbie zones are probably good to start. The rest may be out there. You could then play for 30-60 minutes three nights a week and expect to hit 106 in like 15 weeks. Yikes. Of course /over and fellowships could cut that down to something reasonable.
I played from Kunark through Planes of Power or so back in the day. I have tried several times in the past six or seven years to get back into the game, but I always end up giving up at around level 80-85. I was fine and having fun just molo'ing up until that point. I would like to have kept going but the mobs began to hit too hard, had too much hp, and it was such a huge slow down in xp that I couldn't stomach it.
You can try to justify it any way you want, but I don't suspect many new or returning players will stick it out much past 80 in the current format. My assessment of this game in recent years is that it isn't really viable to play unless you are going to multibox.
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