Mob HP bloat over last 3 expansions

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Vizier, Dec 31, 2020.

  1. kizant Augur

    I wasn't trying to make it Mage vs Wizard. I was just pointing out that the Mage DPS was rather low. The same could also be said for the Wizard but at least when you had a 300k parse for the Wizard it was fairly reasonable. Especially considering group gear.
    Vizier likes this.
  2. Ezbro Elder

    "Why play caster DPS and fight an uphill battle against giant HP pools that are inflated when you can play a melee dps and not care?"
    I agree, mobs are totally bloated vs spells/mana. D**kpaw are you listening?
    Vizier likes this.
  3. Accipiter Old Timer


    That's been my experience as well. I have wizard and mage on the same account. I try to keep them both up on AAs but the mage is the primary. My observation is anecdotal because I haven't parsed it, but when I play the wizard instead of the mage I notice a distinct loss of overall DPS.
  4. Kaeladar New Member

    Funny i have the opposite problem with mage.
    I have several accounts with multiple toons on each. Generally with mage my team does around 1M sustained dps, if I play something else, my team is generally around to 700-800K and it does feel a lot slower so i feel forced to play my mage.

    I do agree though bigger HP pools don't favor mages and wizards. But with a full group of real players, mobs really don't last long enough to favor dot classes or melee too much.

    200K for a mage at 115 is too low, my mage is group geared (mix from ToV T2 icebound to CoV T2 blizzard), i box her with a single multibind button, and can sustain 350K, possibly more with proper support.
    this is a 30 min lesson run in ToV, non full group, bard slacking and even stopped singing sometimes, 94 mobs killed so about 3 per min with pull time, only druid has some raid gear.
    A Coldain enforcer in 1810s, 2,016.0m @1113799sdps
    Paladin@389.2k sdps
    Magician + pets@332.4k sdps
    ShadowKnight + pets@195.6k sdps
    Druid + pets@156.0k sdps
    Bard@25784sdps
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  5. Vizier Augur

    You guys have the worst reading comprehension. Some person decided to be nasty about my Mage dps in my parse and ruined the entire discussion. To that person: thanks so much. I am trying to show how low caster dps is vs melee dps. But nah, lets nitpick my 3rd mage box, that doesnt even have all the AAs finished (8/15 on spears for example). Ok fine.

    It's super easy to criticize but it's still all talk to me. I still havent seen anyone post 50 of their last fights on a mage, in real time, with real problems and dps lulls that naturally occur during and extended exp grind. I am starting to think you guys only test on combat dummies and not out in the real world and thus have not a whole lot to offer.
  6. KrakenReality Augur

    You need to relax. You volunteered a parse with your mage with incomplete AAs, which was relevant to your own topic of Wizard/Magr versus Melee Dps.

    If you want people to compare Wiz/Mage to Melee then post a parse of melee dps. Otherwise, people are going to talk Wiz versus Mage because they’re functionally the same role.

    Anytime, you want to talk about DPS relative to another class you better make sure of 3 things:

    1. Played Competently
    2. At the very minimum all of the DPS AAs are maxed.
    3. Can’t be a boxed character.

    Edit: People that raid are used to seeing an individual character sustain your whole group’s damage output. It’s easy to forget that there are a lot of casual players like yourself that don’t have the game mastered in the same way others do that they’re used to seeing.
    WeezFv and Xianzu_Monk_Tunare like this.
  7. Vizier Augur


    You need to relax. You make a point about melee logs but I do not box melee dps myself so I have no real logs to post. The point of posting my own person logs was to show what an uphill battle it is for casters to beat these huge HPs boats. To me, that seems obvious...
  8. Derka Power Ranger

    So some context here I main the ranger in a mix of t3 CoV group gear, maxed group evolves from TBL and ToV ear, some T1 ToV raid vis, a T1 ToV raid bow and T2 ToV 2hander. The shaman is my box just there for adps support and slows. I was helping the warrior gear up he is still learning a bit. The parse is of 48 dracholiches during our morning coffee wake up lesson burn. I had 3 full bow burns in the mix and because this was more towards sustained I didn't twincast any DoTs. This would be a good baseline but it could easily be much higher DPS if trying and or a bard/beastlord for more support.
    https://ibb.co/FmWcCd8
  9. Mookus Augur

    It’s a shame the OP’s post got sidetracked. He tried to provide some data to prove what EVERYONE already knows.... that wizard dps isn’t balanced correctly.

    Devs only care about a new world where everyone has multiboxes. They don’t give a crap about class balance anymore.

    The parse that proves what we’re saying about wizards is the one that enumerates how many of their precious boxer group accounts are being used by wizards over the last few years. Virtually none is the answer.

    There was a 1 month span about 7 years ago where wizards were the best raid dps. The instant backlash against us at that time was glaring. That was right about the start of when multiboxing became prevalent. People coined the term Burstain to describe the absolute inconceivable injustice that wizards were consistently topping almost all raid parses at that brief moment in time. Many years later the devs are ok with one class topping all parses. And melee archetypes topping nuker archetypes. fire the class balance devs.
  10. hiolpe Journeyman

    I'm just curious, but how did we get in the present state? There's been some changes to the classes over the expansions but for the most part it seems like copy and paste scaling abilities and spells since TSS. I remember wizard and mage rain crit rate got nerfed. Melee dicho is much better than wiz/mage dicho. Synergy is now a thing. Any other core changes over the years?

    Has the % change in nuke dmg on wiz/mage spells not kept up with the hp bloat and % change of dmg on melee weapons? Maybe wiz/mage innate crit rate staggered behind melee innate crit rate? I'm just trying to make sense of how wizard and mage have fallen so far behind and maybe we can advocate for ways to correct it.
  11. Tucoh Augur

    Just so you know, as a non-wizard who boxes multiple berserkers I think it's an injustice that wizards aren't the undisputed kings of burst DPS.

    They should delete the berserker class and buff wizards.
  12. Cadman Elder

    For what it's worth, I agree that casters need some help, but they're not hurting as much as your individual parse suggests.

    No-one is "picking on your Mage" - they're just trying show that you could be doing double, which would help you out a lot.

    T2 CoV grind parse - https://ibb.co/cY2JkvV
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and kizant like this.
  13. kizant Augur

    Mages haven't fallen behind at all though. They really shouldn't be apart of this conversation.
    Micaiah and Xianzu_Monk_Tunare like this.
  14. Mookus Augur

    Agree. A mage instagroup shouldn’t have nearly the dps of a wizard.

    Looking at the boxer class choice parse... yep tons of box mages. Case closed.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  15. Leex Augur


    Please don't compare Magicians to Wizards, in fact...Don't compare any class, to another class. It's a great way to get the pitch forks to come out. Especially with Wizards vs Mages.

    You're receiving the responses that you are, due to the way you presented your information. You say Wizards are in a bad spot, then show a Magician in an even worse spot. This would lead some to think that Wizards are in better shape than Magicians, which is where Kizant's Nerd rage comes in.

    Had you made your post without saying anything regarding Magician's, you would have actually received support.

    Regarding your personal DPS. On both characters you could improve a great deal, refer to Mookus's parse. Of course, I'm sure he has some ADPS support however, you do as well. Maybe your botting skills just aren't as good as Mookus?


    Regarding HP bloat - My box group ( No ADPS support ) kills CoV trash mobs between 15 - 30ish seconds depending. I use no burst classes ( albeit, I do box 3 necros w/my Mage :p ). Mob HP seems fine?
  16. Cragzop Cranky Wizard

    This thread should be locked and maybe we can start over. I don't think we need to, but sometimes a fresh start helps.

    BTW:

    You do realize that caster adps support is not limited to bards, druid and enchanters. The mage / necro synergies are PERFECT for each other as well as the amount of pets for the mage's of many line. I mean ... there's a reason you are running the lineup right?

    Screwy group makeups should never be used to make any general statements.

    4 toon team killing 35M hp mobs in 15 sec = averages 583k dps per toon

    Yeah, necros aren't a burst class ... uh huh.
  17. Vaeeldar Augur

    The problem was the op parse posted he highlighted how bad the mage was and how the wiz beat him.

    A lot of people, myself included, took issue with that because wizzes need a buff badly, especially compared to mage. Wizzes have become useless in modern game.

    All that said necro dps is fine at moment - they can compete with the melee. Mage has definitely fallen behind but decent foci has let them keep up. that saiid I run multiple teams of 3 mage, wiz (retired so bad), necro, monk and ber. My ber is definitely the best but frankly monk keeps up. Mage isn’t bad but just can’t compete (bard is just so much more powerful overall for melee than ench is for casters.) with the melee. I haven’t built it yet but I’m sure rogue would be right there also.

    reality is wizzes need a super buff, mage needs some tweaking. Ench I’m iffy on maybe some slight tweaks but it’s sort of messy with their support aspects - they aren’t in a bad spot though.
  18. Vaeeldar Augur

    People box mages due to ease + pet it’s not a pure dps approach. Mages aren’t in wizzy position but they are noticeably behind the other dps classes they definitely need some tweaking. And/or we need to mark brd as useful to casters and ench more sustained impact a swell.
  19. kizant Augur

    The bigger issue is you that can't show poorly performing casters as evidence that melee have gotten too far ahead. It also seems to me that most people have trouble keeping up with changes to the game. You can't play a CoV mage the same way you did in TBL even. The same goes for Wizards. I could do 300k dps solo last year. Add CoV upgrades and an enchanter and it'll be a good deal more.
    Cadman likes this.
  20. Vaeeldar Augur

    I’m not saying your wrong per say but I do think your really trying hard to hide the fact that melee - particularly ber/rogue but also monk and then necro the lone caster have a huge lead over the rest.

    I don’t think mage are necessarily in a horrible spot but they could use some slight tweaking. I can run alliance/many all day long with my 3 mage group they can’t even begin to approach the ber/necro/monk group dps.

    Now all that said i don’t understand how anybody can even begin to say wizards are in the spot they should be. They are honestly useless at the moment. I have 3 I use for ports at this point because I retired them with how bad they got in TOV and then especially COV.
    Micaiah likes this.

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