Mage Claw

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Manaelil, Feb 6, 2017.

  1. Behelit Augur

    cause the secret mage coalition already has it in the works for a new pet, Zerker-template. no more of that warrior/rogue non-sense. when you cast Frenzied Burnout on it, it'll last until you zone or the pet dies. it also procs a hit for 3mil every 60sec. and lifesteals... I might be leaving a few things out but you get the idea.
  2. kizant Augur

    That is one possibility. I still think we should consider my alternative facts in this situation.

    Also, although it does suck that Zerkers are super OP right now compared to the rest of us.. but at least they are a fellow DPS class. So, it's cool. :D
  3. fransisco Augur

    So zerkers doubling your dps is ok, but mages approaching 50% of your class is wrong?

    Its true, what you say are "Alternative facts"...
  4. Piemastaj Augur

    The only thing I have personally asked for that was remotely close to what a Wizard had was back before House of Thule launched and we had literally no Burst. So, it was only logical to ask for a heavy DD nuke to bring us somewhere close to every other class and now we do have our Spear line of spells similar to your Ethereals.

    The issue is, the abilities your class has are incredibly easy to implement for most classes. Need mana? Ok stand around for 12 seconds and you have it. That can literally be done for every class even melee with Endurance. Need to hit harder? Ok increase their best DD ability by X percent, done. The easier classes will always get their abilities farmed out, plain and simple. And no that is not because the players asked for it, its because the developers are either too lazy or they do not have enough time to implement an ability that fits perfectly for that class.

    We had our Rain line of spells revamped, unlocked and boosted expansions ago. Then someone from your class decided they were too good and they got crit capped at 40%. Not saying they weren't strong because they were, but we had Magely stuff and it got nerfed. Can't even begin on the pet part of our class with the nerfs or our Of Many line, the literal nuke that was designed for mages getting nerfed. They like to give us some Mage abilities, then a year or even months later just butcher them with nerfs.

    Point is, we do not want your abilities. We have plenty of abilities and ideas that tailor to our class. We however do not make the decisions at all. If you really think Magicians are that well connected, why does our class get nerfed the most? lol.

    I never knew having so few active players in a class was an advantage. You would think after all of the nerfs there would be no one in the class left to steal your spells....
  5. Manaelil Elder

    You should really work on your reading comprehension.
  6. Manaelil Elder

    I understand that the devs copy abilities because its expedient. I do not have much to add besides the fact that I think it is a flawed policy that augments one class at the expense of another. I don't think it can be disputed that classes should be distinct from one another and this practice serves to undermine that.

    There have also been multiple posts from several different mages stating that they don't want wizard abilities and in another thread there was a consensus that if possible they wanted a decent chunk of mage dps to result from their pets. Claw was a unique mechanic and it is the focal point of most of wizard spellcasting. It is incorporated into aoe spell casting priorities, non burn spellcasting priorities, and low mana spell casting priorities. The procs that result from casting it in many ways determine the spell casting order of a wizard.

    What if berzerkers got backstabbing abilities? What if wizards got mage pets? You may think I'm using hyperbole but those who think it is just another spell are severely downplaying its significance. It may not seem like it but claw is a highly significant feature of wizard spellcasting that is no longer unique to wizards alone. Its not hard for me to imagine SK's being angry if pallys suddenly had competitive aoe aggro generating abilities or vice versa if SK's got a version of splash.

    That being said I do not care enough to keep posting about it. There are bigger class imbalances out there and I suppose this sort of thing is to be expected from a game with diminishing resources devoted to its maintenance.
  7. Behelit Augur

    So what you're trying to say is Mages are beating you on parse?

    Or how Sk's felt when Zerkers got passive 1% lifesteal at the same time and the same value as Sk's?

    These things happen, we can complain about it as much as we want the Devs are going to do what makes their lives easier and class bleeding absolutely makes things easier for them when it comes to design. There's a reason the Dicho's and Alliance spells are all so similar, creating 16 sets of unique spells/aa just isnt going to happen anymore (if it ever did, which is arguable).

    Get over it and figure out how to improve Wizards. And by all means look at other classes' tool set, you'd be a fool not to.
  8. Drogba Augur

    It's a pity to see you big b4d4sses taking pot shots at each other on the threads.

    You'd likely be impressed with each others dps outputs if you raided together. I can testify that mages can't typically beat a Manaelil on a parse :)
  9. Piemastaj Augur

    You speak as if Wizards had their Claw removed? AFAIK you still have it, and this has no effect to you at all. Magicians having a Claw ability does nothing to you, and it clearly does not show up in any type of Parse you should win over a magician.

    It would be awesome to not have to use this spell in our burn line-up like you can choose not to, however we have to use this spell in our burn line-up which is where it differs if you need to find some silver lining. The only realistic time we should not be using it is during ITC because of its weak DPS, other then that we are forced to use it 24/7. Which takes A LOT of skill out of playing the class when 1 person could be trash but gets 84 Twincast procs and out-DPSes the best Mage in EQ because they only got 1 twincast proc.

    Would you like CoH? Have it. Want our incredible pets that get nerfed every patch? Do it. Let's talk about your 150% crit disc vs our 26% though o_O. Heck, every1 gets our mod rod ability and we say no words about it. Nec and BL all get our pet abilities, no one bats an eye.

    I do find it incredibly funny that Berserkers dunk on everyone so far, and yet Magicians and pets are the most talked about nerf threads lol. I guess the trend dies hard even when both are far from OP....
  10. Manaelil Elder

    This should be obvious but objects that are unique have value. Action comics #1 are valuable because there are so few of them. If you print money or if the Fed lowers interest rates the value of the dollar goes down.

    If a raid leader has 54 slots and needs to beat an event before another guild who do you think he is going to take? A mage with wizard abilities or a wizard without mage abilities?

    Also the point here is you just got one of the wizards best abilities. Raising your crit discs to the level of Wizards' is the exact opposite way to balance the scales.

    You guys are still mitigating the addition of claw. I haven't seen a single mage acknowledge what a huge boost it is to mages.
  11. kizant Augur

    It was just a joke and I think we've seen a decent amount of wizards complaining about zerker dps on here too.
  12. Sancus Augur

    Seems like the answer is you....
    Drogba likes this.
  13. segap Augur

    That raid leader will take the player of whichever class that best meets the need. In the case of dps, they could care less about how they do dps, they care about how well they do it. A great mage will beat an average wizard. A great wizard will beat a great mage. Only takes one mage to cast rods.

    The claw line might be a unique (or was) ability that defines play style, but it is not unique or defining in any way from an outsiders view. Guilds are not taking wizards because of it. They're taking wizards for dps regardless of how it's done. The stealing of abilities from class to class has less to do on the balance side than in making all classes play similar and making the game more bland.
    Sancus likes this.
  14. Piemastaj Augur

    Considering Wizards need less ADPS to do more? Magician of course.... I mean the only logical answer is the class that needs more to do worse. Magicians are one of the worst classes for raids because of the melee reliance on top of needing Caster ADPS. Basically needing an entire group of mixed support to max out their DMG entirely.

    Not to mention, in terms of skill a crap Mage vs a crap Wizard, the Wizard will always win. Again another point in the Wizards favor.

    If anything, this change brought things more in line with allowing us to sustain higher then you do, which has always been the case outside of a few of the more recent expansions. Not to mention they tuned us around our efficient Rains for 3 years then nerfed them into the ground, making our mana problems become horrendously bad.

    You can try and argue until your blue in the face, however you have posted multiple times how this does not effect your burn at all. Does this make it so a Magician out Bursts you? AFAIK it does not. Does it make it so we can out-sustain you? yes, as most people would agree we should.

    Again, your trying to grasp at straws against a class that is not dumpstering you on a nightly basis for Burst. You probably should try and fix your class and get it to the point where you can again compete with the top Melee class instead of a sustained class.

    Sarcasm is lost on you apparently. It was a joke, but the point remained. You have 124% crit DMG on us compared to our disc which can be used twice to our once. That would be class defining if we gained your crit DMG disc like you want our pets or Bers backstabbing.
    Igniz likes this.
  15. Manaelil Elder

    I win parses because I'm good. Not because of any specific class advantage. Everyone knows that skill ultimately determines who parses well and who doesn't far more than class advantages (with the exception of zerkers who are so completely insanely op that a monkey could top parses with them).

    This is a ridiculous argument. Because wizards are easier for average players to play people think we have been op for years. In reality necros were better than us in tds and zerkers have reigned supreme since tbm. Just because an average player can button mash a wiz more effectively than a mage doesn't mean that wizards should be nerfed and no, it isn't a point in the wizards favor.
  16. Piemastaj Augur

    Show me where I said you were OP lol. And also show me where I said you should get nerfed?

    I simply said if you compare the 2 classes having the same skill level, the Wizard wins. You did not provide any type of argument proving this statement to be false, meaning I am inclined to think you would agree with it.

    You asked a question and I answered it multiple times, and in both answers Wizards were favored. The class that needs less to do more or equal will be picked vs the class that needs more to do worse. Also, accounting for human error and overall skill gap, as a raid leader you will be more inclined to take a no-name Wiz over a No-name Mage because you fully know the Wizard does better with less skill. That is purely a class thing, has nothing to do with player skill cap.

    You asked the question, does not seem like you were prepared for the answer. Does not make what I said any less true though.
  17. Behelit Augur

    I'll take your word for it, but I find it hard to believe that 3 months into the expansion they just randomly stumbled upon Mage chaotic and decided to make a thread about it. Generally there's an impetus for this like losing a parse or two.

    And not to be cliche, but... "they started it!"

    So if you played a Mage you'd be able to top your Wizard's numbers?
    Igniz, Cicelee, Drogba and 1 other person like this.
  18. Manaelil Elder

    Hard to say. I would need to see a fully utilized mage's dps numbers to confirm or deny that and I don't think I've reached the limit of what wiz is capable of since I only came back to the game about 3 weeks ago. From what I've seen so far of top mages on my server it seems like the two classes's capabilities are competitive.

    But that's only partially pertinent to what I was originally saying. No one's disputing that mage's deserved a boost. I just don't like the fact that they were given claw.
  19. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    I'm lulling them into a false sense of security.
  20. I-WANT-IT-NOW Augur

    Like that time wizards stole death bloom? Or the time they stole embalmers carapace? Or the time they stole a crittable focus disc for nukes? Yeah seems to be only a one way street.

    Get over yourself, every class has niche abilties stolen when they are effective and simple to replicate for others.