Mage Claw

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Manaelil, Feb 6, 2017.

  1. Manaelil Elder

    So a friend recently informed me that Mages now have claw because the Mage's union has been non stop for over a year.

    Guess this should be a lesson to everyone that organized complaining allows you to take the best abilities of other classes. Seriously what point is there to being a wizard these days. We are essentially mages without pets. This is ridiculous.
  2. Manaelil Elder

    Well as mad as I was when I created this thread prolly best to just forget it exists. I can already see the flame war that will result. No need for that.
  3. IblisTheMage Augur

    It is safe to assume that your dps would drop considerably if you rerolled a mage. You play a mage for the pet tanking, if you want dps you play something else (bez, wiz, rang, rogue, war, sk, monk, etc). The 'mage union' consist of maybe 2-3 players on this forum, and the standing joke is whether mage pets will get nerfed as a solution to any arbitrary problem, not related to mages. Funny because it is true, last pet nerf was last patch, completely unrelates to gameplay, but driven by the desire to normalize and simplify game mechanics.

    However, dedicated mages tend to be extremely analytical and well spoken (jk, see the pop psych thread on player psychology based on class), and as such may present themselves as being unionized. We are, however, completely poweerless.
  4. Manaelil Elder

    It is totally unacceptable for a class to appropriate the strengths of other classes. Without getting too bogged down into details a class becomes OP when it starts to exhibit the strengths of multiple classes. More importantly mages already had abilities that, although somewhat inferior when compared to those of other classes, become overwhelmingly better when you take a central pillar of another class and add it to the existing strengths and weaknesses of mages.

    If it wasn't for the other egregious imbalances that currently exist like zerkers being insanely OP and warriors being able to do insane amounts of dps I'd make a bigger deal out of it. Since I know people are going to make this argument its a argument that zerkers should stay op because they sucked 2 xpacs ago. Class imbalances should be rectified no matter how sucky a class was last xpac.

    Finally there is always strength in numbers. By liking and supporting each others post you build the illusion of consensus. There is almost universal support amongst mages for other mages which each post complaining about how bad mages have it getting upwards of 5-6 likes from other players. Flat denial of existing advantages also helps in keeping those advantages. Most people who find an exploit have the sense to keep it to themselves and not to publicize it. I won't deny that mage players are intelligent. Because they are intelligent they know how to get what they want.

    However, the point is that its unacceptable to take from other classes and add it to your own. Especially not something like claw which is so essential that it is central to every non burn casting order.
  5. Sancus Augur

    First, the entire purpose of this thread is to whine about another class, which is pretty pathetic.

    Secondly, Aristo made Chaotic Fire on his own accord, acting like through sheer will we stole a spell from you is ridiculous. To my knowledge no Mage asked to have claw, and even if we did Aristo is completely non responsive both in PMs and on the forums. Or maybe I just missed the meeting where we got to pick and choose other class' abilities that we wanted...

    Personally I dislike that they copied a Wizard spell and gave it to us as well, but (un)fortunately Aristo does not listen to me. However, as dumb as copying claw was, it was far more ridiculous that in post rain nerf TDS and TBM Wizards out DPSed Mages in both sustained and burst. Wizards are still very competitive in DPS outside of zerkers, and, while you did get shafted in EoK beta, taking that out on Mages seems misplaced.

    As a side note, this "Mage Union" exists because there's only a half dozen max raiding Mages left that post on these forums and because it was abundantly clear where the Mage class had deficiencies (raid DPS). You're here complaining and you're in nowhere near as poor a state as Mages were in raids in TBM, if you were you'd understand why that consensus existed.

    But conspiracy theories are probably more fun.
    Igniz, Felicite and fransisco like this.
  6. Sheex Goodnight, Springton. There will be no encores.

    Have you ever actually played a Mage? It's really not the opaf-afk-pet-moloing-cup-of-tea you seem to be trying to label it as.

    If you're going to take a page out of the "dey took err jerbs!" playbook, there really are much better examples out there.

    PS - don't forget to blame Beimeith!
    Igniz, Beimeith, Felicite and 2 others like this.
  7. Manaelil Elder

    I knew you were going to post the second I posted this to the forums. For the record this isn't about mages being OP. This is about taking abilities from other classes.

    This is bad because it simultaneously significantly augments the class that is gaining the new ability while invalidating the need for the class that had the ability taken.

    You can't honestly say that the mage claw isn't the focus of your new spell priority order. To do so would be to significantly downplay the utility of the claw which grants both twincast and forceful rejuv. It is invaluable to for damage and mana generating purposes as well as refreshing essential abilities.

    It removes the distinction between the two classes. Wiz spellcasting is now an order of magnitude more similar to mage spellcasting with the addition of claw. However, this is with the proviso that mages have 'more' than wizards do with the new addition.

    You on the one hand say that the organized bellyaching exists and on the other call it a conspiracy theory. At no point did I say that mages congregate in a smoke filled room to coordinate their forum posts. It is more like the echo chamber of the media that systematically tweets, upvotes, and supports some narratives over others. There is nothing conspiratorial about it other than universally expressing solidarity amongst your peers.

    As if mages haven't been whining and comparing themselves unfavorably to wizards for the better part of a year. You just did it again:

    This ignores the fact that wizard ascendancy was never very significant and, at any rate, is in the past. It is no longer relevant to the discussion because it no longer exists.

    So we agree. It was a clumsy and hamfisted attempt to augment mage dps at the expense of wizards.

    You didn't specifically request it. The endless complaining of you and your peers created a need which was fulfilled by a flawed policy.
  8. Sancus Augur

    This is a pointless discussion because Mages do not decide what spells we get. Aristo sure as hell isn't going to respond to this thread, so all you're doing is berating Mages not because of their DPS, but because a developer decided to be lazy to achieve that end result of DPS?

    Chaotic is a strong spell. We needed strong spells. I wish they had done it differently, which I said multiple times both in beta and in PMs to Aristo (which went ignored).

    Regardless, this discussion is completely academic because, again, we had no control over how the developers gave us boosts.
    Igniz likes this.
  9. ~Mills~ Augur

    Where oh where is necro claw oh where oh where can it be! And spell twincast for that matter.
  10. gotwar Gotcharms

    100% sure this happens. They use a replica of Beimeith's skull as an ashtray and wear fine suits.

    I have nothing to add to this thread.
    Igniz, Beimeith, fransisco and 2 others like this.
  11. Cicelee Augur

    I have begged and pleaded for the past three expansions to any developer that listens to me, that magicians are in desperate need of the ability to wear plate armor and backstab like a rogue. So far all of my requests have fallen on deaf ears. I was even sending PM's on these forums every 5 minutes for 18 consecutive months. Did not get a lot of sleep then, but my crusade was my most important thing. Alas it never happened.

    So unfortunately not everything magicians ask for, we get. Only things that developers feel are in our best interests...
    gotwar likes this.
  12. fransisco Augur

    This thread is a truly fine gift.

    And for posterity, WHAT THE HECK BEIMEITH!
    Beimeith likes this.
  13. Mookus Augur

    Wizards are like a pilot project for EQ public domain. Pretty much every single thing they ever developed specifically for wizards is farmed out. Perma-invis, crit discs, tp group to bind, Claw, secondary bind, familiars.

    I think the OP is probably more upset by the state of wizard stagflation rather than specifically at Magicians and this latest affront to our class.

    Anyway, i didn't know our claw spell was farmed out till now. I noticed some interesting details about it now that i look:

    Fire Claw Reflection III (wiz)
    1:35% Chance to trigger: Syllable of Fire III (=+3469 dmg)
    2:5% Chance to trigger: Syllable of Ice III (=+3469 dmg)
    3:5% Chance to trigger: Syllable of Magic III (=+3469 dmg)
    4:12% Chance to trigger: Syllable of Mastery III (=+4232 dmg)
    5:10% Chance to trigger: Twincast Rk. III
    6:12% Chance to trigger: Syllable of Angerwarding (-30% aggro focus on future nukes)
    7:15% Chance to trigger: Syllable of Mana Boost III (+1900 mana)
    8:6% Chance to trigger: Syllable of Refreshment (clear timers)

    Chaotic Fire Chance III (mage)
    1:28% Chance to trigger: Flames of Power IV (increase spell dmg 60% to 150%
    2:30% Chance to trigger: Chaotic Fire Refreshment (+1983 mana)
    3:10% Chance to trigger: Twincast Rk. III
    4:25% Chance to trigger: Chaotic Fire Jolt (-18211 hate)
    5:6% Chance to trigger: Syllable of Refreshment (clear timers)
    6:1% Chance to trigger: Flames of Weakness IV

    Isn't 60-150% dmg focus worth A LOT more than an extra 3600 base dmg on the wiz proc? If that is better, i think we wizzies are due a hotfix on that imo.
  14. fransisco Augur

    1. Get over yourselves
    2. See # 1
    3. Do you honestly believe that wizards are the only class in the history of everquest who has had their abilities given to other classes?
    4. See #1
    5. Has this spell made mages outburn wizards? No? See #1
    6. Nerf pets?
  15. Sancus Augur

    That focus uses SPA 124, which prevents it from stacking with Heart of Flames and Elemental Union (and Bard Aria and Elemental Flames), which makes the actual damage contribution much lower (basically nothing for the first 8 minutes of every fight, and never actually 60-150%).

    Also worth noting ours has no focus AAs (meaning effective base damage is significantly lower) and costs significantly more mana. If you're comparing the two that probably needs to be mentioned.
    fransisco likes this.
  16. Behelit Augur

    [insert obligatory joke about how this will get mage pets nerfed once again here]
  17. kizant Augur

    Which is also a copy of the effect from Thricewoven Stormstrike. Not only did they steal claw but they received the very first version of Mana Weave that's actually worth using. We've been waiting over 11 years for that!!!
  18. Sancus Augur

    That proc is from Fickle, which is a line that was introduced at the same time as Mana Weave (both at level 69). We didn't steal that from you.
    fransisco likes this.
  19. fransisco Augur

    So wizards. Why all the hate on mages who don't approach your burst, but nothing for berzerkers who literally make you worthless.
    Nenake likes this.
  20. Littlelegs Elder

    Thank you. This has set a new personal record for me. Shortest amount of time before remembering why I don't read these boards regularly.
    Nenake likes this.