Left this alone till now

All 20 true box fans fans have been quite vocal about how they
Think this should all go down.
I see dbg in a rock and hard place. They don’t want to upset the Truebox
Fans and they don’t want to upset the folks who enjoy playing multiple toons eather.
The solution is simple and fair:

One true box server
One box enabled server

Both servers should have what’s attractive to us all:
Aoc
Free trade/ fv rule set
3 day unlock
No motm

As someone who enjoys boxing I would Love a server
That allows boxing, the above rule set as well as:
Opening with classic / kunark
A solid 4 month for each expansion
No vote Auto Unlock timer
One time Server wides for server kills no serverwides on that
Event again.

So dear dbg,
If you make one of the servers like that I can promise you
That us boxers won’t let you down. We will do our part
We will be there in force and we will stay till you shut off the lights

The past two TLP servers have been Truebox. Coirnav is still only at Luclin. One of these servers that is launching needs to be boxable and have AoC. DBG you know how many people like to box and how many like to box on TLP servers. Give it a shot. See how it does.

I don't have a dog in this fight as I gave up on TLPs after Lockjaw, but I wonder if an AoC server could support non True-box. Maybe it just isn't possible to have a bunch of box armies opening their own instances and lagging down the server. Server stability might be a bigger issue then people imagine.

If there was a way to limit boxing to 4 or 6 per IP, I think this would be an excellent idea. If the servers can handle the load, I don't see why they wouldn't have already tried it.

Live servers have a ton of group-level instanced content, and have
for quite some time and allow boxing. I am sure the number of AOC instances would be a lot lower than the number of instances on live. Alao, when progression servers hit LDON, they have a ton of instances going at once.

I think this is by far the best idea. Everyone wins. Boxers win, Anti-vaxxers win, Daybreak gets PAID.

One true box server
One box enabled server

Both servers should have what’s attractive to us all:
Aoc instancing
Free trade
4 month expansion unlock after completion (no votes)
3 day raid lockouts
No MOTM

Its time we all get something with Free trade w/ AOC instancing from day one. FV is very popular so it makes sense to make a TLP version like it. If you make one that's hardcore and one that's casual, then it just makes perfect sense.

I would also like to add the QOL improvements would be stupid to NOT have at Day 1:
Block buffs
Bandolier
Server side filtering
Click from Bags
Hotzones - Teek (upon opening of POK)
Fellowships (upon opening of POK)

Lastly, and most importantly, No further changes after server is voted on and released. Set it and forget it. No server splitting due to booming population, no changing the ruleset to appease whiners, nothing. Just let it run as it was originally agreed on. Measure twice, Cut once.

edited for clarity

I agree that one server should be truebox and the other not truebox. I also agree that both servers should have AoC.

You don't know about FV? At launch it should be one character per account, no boxing, role-play, no OOC, group by alignment, ect ect.
There's is box servers and true box servers but there's nothing like FV which wasn't just a free trade server it was the role-play server. I hope they do something different for 2-0.

Live servers for the most part don't have the population levels of a new TLP tho. You may be absolutely correct, I was speculating.

Server with AoC's and no truebox. Put whatever else you want in there (maybe not the motm I hate that mechanic) and it will be a VERY busy server. If they are worried that too many people will be playing....isnt that EXACTLY what they want? Aren't they launching these servers to get more customers? /crosses fingers /knocks on wood NO WHAMMIES!

Ideally if you start the casual server in GoD using Agnarr, you can go regular box and nobody would care.

At the same time, if you really wanted it to be casual, have Hayda Ware spawn in PoK for the server, unhook the mercenary window itself from SoD, and allow the use of Mercenary Contracts from /claim. Provide a mercenary contract specifically for the server in /claim for those who don't have one.

Now, you only get A1-A5, J1... because you need SoD to open the rest. But given you only have 65 levels at the start, you aren't in any way past where the lower mercs are very effective. At that point, you can two-box pretty much any group content.

It’s funny how you go to EVERY thread and start the conversation as if everyone in the thread is already talking about the new server somehow being tied to helping people that knowingly went to a server that was designed to not go past a certain expansion. Just start over on the new server with everyone else. Heaven forbid you have to level 1-65 again. You’re suggestion of creating a new server to help a subset of a subset of a small total population to begin with is comical at best. No, DBG is not going to make a whole new server to cater to you and your 10 friends that want off Agnarr.

In all reality, I would have to level 1-65 again. Only this time I have everything up through LDoN to do it in. If they find a way to get mercs in there along with regular boxing, even better... as I can do it on my own time as I see fit.

If they want an ultra-casual server, that's the way you do it.

Inflicting 3 months of Classic and Kunark each is the antithesis of that. There is nothing casual to be found there. But do try to explain which part of that IS Casual? The 50+ lguk picks with people fighting over camps? The endless juggs groups? Having to have a raid schedule? Which part is in any way casual-friendly?

I think you got it backwards about who the vocal minority is. If boxing was so good for TLP why didn't people stay on Ragefire and Lockjaw? I mean Ragefire/LJ had a chance to be 3 months unlocks and they're past the point AoCs matter now, so why aren't these servers super popular?

Boxing more then a few toons has a massive negative effect on server population and longevity. Sorry man but the truth hurts.

Almost 0 chance DBG ever does a TLP without boxing restrictions again and if it does that server will be a massive failure

I swear so many people on these forums have not been around long enough to know WHY we have things the way they are. No MOTM? lol, You CLEARLY were not around on the first 2 sets of TLPs to see the absolute fiasco that was no MOTM.

Have you ever seen Innoruuk die before his model was even rendered into the game? I have. I watched raid mobs killed before their graphic even appeared! He literally spawned already dead. I know you cannot fathom how its possible, but it is and was when there was no MOTM. There is NO fun in fighting a raid mob for literally less than 1 second and if they did last more than one second they were EASILY dead within 10 seconds - you might cast 1 spell if your super fast at clicking. I am sure that sounds SUPER fun to you, but as someone who lived that, it was the dumbest thing ever. Furthermore MOTM also is what makes the mage armies not able to KS every single raid mob in the game.

MOTM is extremely important and If it were gone the servers would die so fast, just like they did back in the day when people would finally get to raid and then literally watch the raid mob die in 2-3 seconds and say "holy crap that was the dumbest thing ive ever seen" and then promptly quit.

3 day lockouts? Are you freaking crazy? Maybe on the hardcore server, but no casual wants to repeat every raid zone every 3 days. That is just absolutely crazy talk.

I wont go into Truebox because I have in other threads.

Furthermore, Free Trade is still a debated topic. Some want it and some don't. I fall in the I don't want it, but I wouldnt care as much about that.

Nah I get it Trev but with AoC's the MoTM is a non issue. Every guild would have their instance. Your not competing for open world content. I really dont care if box army guy kills the mob. I just want to be able to box with my buddies and kill our own mobs in our instance. I want to compete against the game...not other people. MoTM is just a hamstringer to use little guilds. Tough to kill the same stuff with fewer people. I loathe...absolutely loathe the zerg. I hate having to be in a guild of people I dont know...some I dont like... just to do content. I would rather hang with people I like and enjoy. Folks who I can sit and talk with and raid for a few hours. Having the ability to box makes that possible. Having AoC's allows us to do it on our own time. As married adults/parents and professionals (with time constraints just like other people) in RL we really appreciate the benefits of the AoCs. No MoTM just makes it possible for us to be successful as a small guild...without waiting for a few expansions to kill content.

It does effect instances. I don't want to kill a mob in 10 seconds in my instance. How is that fun? This is NOT an over exaggeration - we literally could kill Cazic Thule in 5-8 seconds with just 50 people. With no MOTM now my raids literally consist of trash and then a 5 second fight on the boss and then we get loot and move on? Are you honestly telling me that it would be fun? Sure, a "small" guild of 30 might kil the mob in 60 seconds, but even that is not fun.

If you want to talk about modifying MOTM so that maybe the % of dmg decrease is lower, perhaps that is something we can talk about, but getting rid of MOTM would make this game pointless, just like it was 10 years ago before we had MOTM.

Before MOTM You could kill Naggy with 6-10 people in just 2 minutes. That isn't "Helping smaller guilds" that is making the whole game stupid.

Not only that but without MOTM we will also go back to mage pet tanking every boss and we won't need any tanks at all, because thats how it was back then. We also go back to Wizards doing 6-8% of a raid mobs health with a single nuke. We also go back to having armies and guilds of 50 mages a couple enchanters and clerics. Does ANY of that sound fun? It wasn't back then and it wouldnt be in 2019.

Getting rid of MOTM is absolutely a terrible idea - We can discuss the modifiers to it or even removing MOTM after so many expansions have gone past, but people who think MOTM should just be gone completely show their complete lack of experience in previous TLP servers.

I firmly believe casuals should get to kill Naggy but I dont think making naggy able to be killed with 8 level 40 mages is the way to go. We study history so we don't repeat the mistakes of the past, I am here reminding everyone who WAS there about that horrible past where we had this forum FULL of people complaining and griping and whining about the absolute ridiculousness of EQ pre-MOTM and to hopefully educate those who weren't there about why MOTM is so important. MOTM may hurt smaller guilds, but non MOTM killed entire servers.

Maybe that will be the diff between the 2 servers? No MoTM on casual and MoTM or something even harder on the hardcore? You want it challenging for large guilds, we want it possible for small guilds...like it used to be before they changed the game we have been playing for 20 years. We don't run with 50 toons. Far below it. We always try to kill mobs with the least amount of toons/people as possible. We also don't mage army. We pretty much run balanced groups. We enjoy the game. We don't plan our guild around raiding. I guess we will just have to wait and see what they offer.

Like I said in the other thread. It's like Christmas morning is coming. I think the majority of people could be happy but there are going to be some folks who get a lump of coal in their stocking. Any way you look at it I think it will be impossible to make everyone happy.

So without MOTM you can kill the raids easily with 6 ( I believe on Vulak or Fippy there was a SK/Shaman/Cleric/Chanter 4 man that did them just to prove how easy it was), do you consider that a good thing? Your raid of 20 people will kill Naggy in about 20-30 seconds, do you consider this a good thing? Do you think that raid bosses should die to 10 people in 1 minute max? Without MOTM AE's mean nothing you resist every single one of them every single time taking out any semblance of challenge. Without MOTM the mobs have 16k hps and can be killed in a matter of seconds by a 20 man raid, is that a good thing? Without MOTM you can pet tank every single boss and a single 6 boxer of mages could easily kill any raid boss, is that a good thing?

Sorry, if any of those things seem "good" to you then I don't think your opinions are valid to any relevant discussion again and I don't think your an unreasonable person. MOTM Must be on every server going forward or the server WILL die - when raiding becomes pointless as it is without MOTM there is no reason to keep playing for much of the EQ population.

I've been playing EQ TLPS since day 1 of Combine/Sleeper and I have never in my life seen a bigger exodus from a guild than the day Inny died before being rendered into the game - TS broke out in the biggest uproar I have ever seen in my life and 30 people logged out of that guild and never logged in again, it was THAT ridiculous. All because of 1 guy named Wulias - notice hes not here anymore cause Daybreak realized they HAD to do something and so they just banned him and people like him just to keep the server from exploding into ruins. I stayed to make it to Kunark and watched Trakanon be killed in 30 seconds with all level 50 toons within 6 hours of the server coming up and the ONLY reason that it took that long is cause the two guilds going for it were training each other for hours. Without MOTM You can kill Naggy/Vox with level 36 mages, I know cause my 5 mages were level 36 when we killed Naggy first and we all laughed the whole time cause it was so funny how trivial it was.

If you want to be reasonable why not say something like: What if we made MOTM1 be 20% dmg reduction instead of 40% or it should only multiple HP by 5 instead of by 10 and then maybe we can have a reasonable conversation about MOTM change.

I don't think they will ever do a non-true box server. I makes a mockery of their game. Having 30 mages running around is a complete joke and I'd never play a server where that happens.

I edited/snipped a lot of your post to make it easier for me to reply to a couple small points.

Daybreak gets paid. - that's the single biggest thing for them. If they don't make money, they don't care about it. They get to make that decision also.

AOC - check, gotta have it imo
Free trade - sounds cool but I don't really care either way. I blow up in raids to make stuff dead, the loot is secondary and just makes future stuff possible/easier.

4 month expansion unlocks - I think this could actually cost you a lot of players. I probably wouldn't play on a 4 month server because I know how hard it is to keep a guild happy and active for 3 months in most of the first half dozen expansions. This just makes my job much harder.

3 day raid lockouts- perfect - not that I intend to do all the raids every three days but in some expansions it's easy and doable and in the others I get to do the stuff we want to do , more often.

No MOTM - hard pass, this trivializes all content and cannot be present on the hardcore server and probably wouldn't even fly on the casual server. Agnarr was my first time through with MOTM and while it took some getting used to, it's definitely a necessary evil to make most content even marginally challenging.

As far as voting - I don't think we get to, so it doesn't really matter. People are going to play and then whine about the ruleset anyway - see Agnarr. People were projecting when it would unlock before we were even out of Classic.