I demand this thread be closed for eternity! Stop feeding the trolls guys, the people in the community with more than 4 cells of a functioning brain should and do know that SKs aren't in the best of places right now. They need help. That is certain. The next thread should be about what improvements can be made for a class in dire need, not arguing what the other two tank classes can do I, for one, would love to see SK lifetaps/detrimental spells have a recourse that heals the whole group - not as effective as pally group heals, but I think that would help a lot in tank balance and SK roles in raid. I know the argument against this is that SKs are the "selfish" class, but I think that argument is a bunch of junk. Necro's Reluctant Benevolence is an extremely awesome tool and SKs should receive something like it (Excuse my SK ignorance, but I don't think they have something like this. If they do, just ignore what I said )
I'll start. SK version of nttb. Damage caps removed from knight defensive discs. Shorter duration and lower mod was enough.
Passive effect: [41823] Cascading Theft of Life Classes: SHD/254 Skill: Melee Target: Caster Group AE Range: 100' Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Casting: 0s 1: Increase Current HP by 11000 Text: Your theft of life cascades to those around you. Activated: [41276] Vicious Bite of Chaos Recourse (1 minute reuse) Classes: SHD/254 Skill: Alteration Target: Caster Group Range: 200', AE Range: 100' Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Casting: 0s 7: Increase Current HP by 2600 8: Increase Current Mana by 700 Text: Chaotic energy fills your body. [43606/13604] Bonemaw's Bite Recourse III (1 minute reuse) Classes: SHD/101 Skill: Alteration Mana: 10 Target: Caster Group Range: 300', AE Range: 100' Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Casting: 0s 7: Increase Current HP by 1930 8: Increase Current Mana by 965 [34804] Reflected Rancor III (10 minute use) Target: Caster Group Range: 200', AE Range: 200' Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Casting: 0s 1: Increase Current HP by 11178 Text: Reflected rancor pumps through your body. [41272] Soul Flay Restoration IX (30% from lifetaps) Classes: SHD/254 Skill: Melee Target: Caster Group AE Range: 200' Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Casting: 0s 1: Increase Current Mana by 950 Text: You have been restored Back to ignoring you.
LOL thanks Now that I know SKs have spells like this (I really need to catch up on other class abilities, I'm such a slacker!), I suggest SK get proficiencies because we all know that's what they are really jealous of not having But seriously...SKs should get more spell DPS - probably in the form of DDs/taps so necros don't whine about mobs being spell blocked - and a flash-type ability which was already discussed earlier. I disagree with the NTTB type buff. I find myself rarely, if ever, using it now because it's a detriment rather than a benefit with it's inability to stack with vie, SB, BFI, etc etc.
I would love to see our taps be instant. Sure, it would mean we could chain them for a short period of time, which would act kind of like a defensive, but we couldn't maintain it due to mana constraints.
Making out life taps instant cast would be nice in the fact that they wouldn't be interrupted but they would still have the GCD so they could not be "chained" any more than they can currently, it also would do nothing to help as a small defensive because of the same reason. Mana constraints are the one thing SK don't have as much as other classes, the dev crew has been very generous to us in that area, probably because we have no way to dump it for fast/burst dps via mana.
SK aren't in the so bad state that you imply they are. I suggest you to play with some knights that like their class and enjoy the game and that don't come here to complain that warriors are overpowered and that knights cannot tank stuff.
I suggest you try tanking challenging stuff more often as a knight. With where warriors fall now there are many times when its better to have a lesser geared level 100 warrior over a 105 better geared knight simply because of clicks, duration of said clicks and the power of all those clicks verse any content.
I don't know what your guild is doing, but I never saw here a guild dropping a level 105 knight for a level 100 warrior. If it happens, then the problem is the knight, it's not a class problem.
One huge area where SK's need a change is lifetap cast time, this is just silly. During 1 HA over 44minutes - Thul HA: 67 mobs + 2 names killed: 87 Interrupted spells [Wed Sep 02 21:32:11 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:32:26 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:33:10 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:33:11 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:33:34 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:33:36 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:33:37 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:33:42 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:34:12 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:34:40 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:34:41 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:35:06 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:35:15 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:35:38 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:35:49 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:38:50 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:38:52 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:38:55 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:39:32 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:40:40 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:40:41 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:42:02 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:42:12 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:42:48 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:43:47 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:44:17 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:44:40 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:45:19 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:45:30 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:47:03 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:47:05 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:47:37 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:47:51 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:47:53 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:47:56 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:47:58 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:48:42 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:49:16 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:49:21 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:50:04 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:50:35 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:50:36 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:50:37 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:50:39 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:50:42 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:50:43 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:50:43 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:50:44 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:50:44 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:50:50 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:54:52 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:54:55 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:55:53 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:55:57 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:58:39 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:59:18 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:59:50 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 21:59:51 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:00:39 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:00:54 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:01:22 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:03:34 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:03:53 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:05:04 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:06:15 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:06:25 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:06:32 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:07:16 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:07:17 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:08:18 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:08:20 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:08:30 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:08:46 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:08:57 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:09:37 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:10:00 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:10:01 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:10:07 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:12:25 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:12:52 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:14:28 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:15:18 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:15:18 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:15:24 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:15:35 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:15:56 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:16:12 2015] Your spell is interrupted. Underwater even worse - Caverns HA - over 18 mobs / 32 interrupts: [Wed Sep 02 22:42:30 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:42:38 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:43:25 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:43:30 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:44:34 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:44:55 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:46:34 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:47:30 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:47:31 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:47:58 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:48:03 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:48:15 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:48:21 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:53:42 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:55:16 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:55:17 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:56:28 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:57:04 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:57:20 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:57:35 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:57:47 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:58:27 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:58:48 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:58:51 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:59:29 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 22:59:57 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 23:00:23 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 23:00:23 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 23:01:02 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 23:01:04 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 23:01:08 2015] Your spell is interrupted. [Wed Sep 02 23:01:14 2015] Your spell is interrupted.
Tanking lots of current level mobs at once for speed achievements. Named that spawn adds that must be tanked when your missing cc or super dps. Knight damage caps on discs verse uncapped discs make it so a level 100 warrior exceeds a 105 a knight in these scenarios if they last longer then 60 seconds. Warriors have 3-4 minutes of god mode with help pretty much regardless of the circumstances compared to maybe 60 seconds of god mode for knights if there isn't enough incoming damage to drop stuff even sooner.
SKs seem to be in a great spot imo. Can tank anything in the grp game and can step up to raid mobs in arx in a pinch. SKs get 3 mins of lifetapping with their epic so I dont think they should get instant lifetaps as well! SKs want it all lol.
SK get 1.5 minutes per cast of epic, thus it takes 3 to keep close to full rotation in raid group. Our caps on our defensive discs are only there to prevent misuse, in regular game play they will not be stripped because of the cap. SK have 5-7 minutes of discs as well + other things to fill the gaps, which in group game is more than enough. There is nothing in the group game that hits hard enough that it can strip the caps and that if in a decent group you cannot burn down before it eats through mantle or unholy. With combining sub discs you can almost have a defensive ability running at all times, if that is not enough to get you though the group game you may not be geared enough. The problem with sk/pal discs are they don't stack with other vie abilities where war do, this makes the tanking difference knight and day. We also don't have noticeably more hp than other classes where war got the hp boosts, therefore with lesser discs + lesser hp we get rounded way more frequently, once fully arx raid geared it is less often, but still happens more than it should. It is only in raids that SK need any real help. Only in raids do we bring practically nothing to the table compared to our counterparts, other than the skill of the player behind the sk. Hopefully with Dzarn in charge of AA now we will see some changes. I hope we also get to see some changes in the spell area as well to help our desirability. edit: we also have to look at what a non fully AA tank can do, because they may have the gear, levels, and spells, but AA make a huge difference and not everyone is fully AA'd
This isn't true. Brace for Impact, No Time to Bleed, Diplomatic Papers all don't stack with Vie. I'd argue that NTTB is still one of our most powerful tools in certain situations (only in the group game) and BFI is undoubtedly our best mitigation tool outside LS in terms of total mitigation and duration. All our other mitigation tools are very short term defensives (sub 1 minute) with average to very long reuse timers (5 minutes upwards of 51 minutes). While I agree with your post, it's just somewhat flawed when it comes to warriors. You also have to remember that you have Staunch which is greater than anything warriors can get in that slot (Growth) which narrows the 9k HP gap between us and is fully sustainable without having to rely on an outside char to keep it up on your (luckily I delegated certain druids to keep it up on me). The only flaw is that it takes a spell slot, but you're a caster so that argument is kind of nullified. Warrior HP buffs aren't sustainable unless we have 3 warriors in the group all casting command. Personally, I've been using charge in lieu of command for the hastened casting for healers. With two other warriors, you can have charge and command up the same time for 1 minute, with either command or charge up another minute and a minute downtime. Then we have Tenacity which has a pretty lengthy recast.
1.5 min not that long I was wrong on the epic time. I still think that knights get a ton of extra utility, and wars don't and thats why wars can take hits better have more hp. That utility is very very handy imo, the game is more than just incoming melee damage. SKs that are skilled bring a ton to the raid. Looking at under geared and under AA'd ppl I see them in the same zones as me camping the same mobs. The only difference I can tell between us is the raid geared ppl just happen to kill the mobs faster. Grp gear ppl can do the same stuff.
No one is debating if a skilled SK brings anything to a raid. A skilled player of any class is almost always needed as even ROI probably doesn't have all 54 slots filled with top skilled people (although they are obviously much closer than anyone else). The issue is a skilled warrior or paladin brings considerably more to the raid game than a SK. Most SKs would like to see something in the upcoming campaign that helps to balance this out.
