Game addons - whats allowed

Discussion in 'The Newbie Zone' started by JarheadJunkie, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. JarheadJunkie New Member

    Returning player, after 16 years away....

    My question is concerning 3rd party software. In the FAQs it says there is no 3rd party software allowed. Does this include map packs and UI enhancements, because I have seen people talking about using those.
  2. Zanarnar Augur

    Non-cynical answer?
    -> MAP packs are fine, things like ShowEQ are not (ShowEQ being a real-time map showing you and all npc's/players/etc in the zone)
    -> 3rd party UI skins are also OK
    -> 3rd party apps like GAMParse and GINA are also ok
    -> M queue 2 is also OK on live servers as long as you don't use any of the hacks (warping for example)

    Cynical answer?
    -> lately its the wild west, especially on the progression servers. Use whatever you like because the chances of "getting caught" are very low and the chances of action taken against you once "caught" is so low, and the actions so .. slight, its hardly an issue.
  3. CatsPaws Augur

    There is no way anyone anyhow would get banned for using map packs so consider that the one safe add on you can use. The best map packs are

    Goods (https://drive.google.com/drive/fold...dhczhaemU5Skp0U2xRY29EQkpoalRHYjduRzNrYmx6R2c)

    and Brewells (http://www.eqmaps.info/eq-map-files/).

    I use both and just toggle the little arrow in upper left when I want the other one. They both can have different stuff sometimes.

    If you want to mess with Custom UI there are still a few around but with all the system changes in the game you will have to alter stuff after patches.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  4. JarheadJunkie New Member

    Thank you both for the quick replies. Those were the answers I was hoping for. While the maps are the main addon I'm looking for, the UI is something I'll look into. It's not that its bad, but just so small for my ever worsening eyes. Maybe I just need to sort out my resolution.
  5. Sirene_Fippy Augur

    Things that aren't allowed to be spelled on the forums probably aren't allowed in-game.
    Beimeith, Quatreh and kizant like this.
  6. Watajoke Journeyman

    There's a guy on the most populated server running 100+ automated accounts in the most populated zones farming the most popular items with 0 action against them. Easy to say that you can use anything you want without punishment. DBG Defense against these third party programs is simply a message board post saying don't use them.
    Tucoh and Duder like this.
  7. Baydin New Member

    If you do get banned for using them, bear in mind there's no appeal. You will lose everything tied to your name and info. There have been some salty folks over the years. It really is pretty clear cut
  8. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    On EQ interface you can find some 4k UI addons that improve the size of text in various windows.
    https://www.eqinterface.com/downloads/index.php?cid=120&dp=0&sh=full&so=desc&sb=lastupdate
  9. NameAlreadyInUse Augur

    It would be nice to be able to rely on that, but it's not the case. Somebody should start a thread of words that these forums ban - it would be a great laugh :)

    A better indicator of what is allowed and what isn't allowed might be the fact that DBG claims and demonstrates the ability to block software they do not want on their TLP servers, but continues to allow the same software on their Live servers. If the software weren't allowed on Live servers, wouldn't they block it on Live servers?

    To the OP, the truth is this:
    • NOBODY on these forums can tell you what is or is not accepted except for DBG employees.
    • If you throw a rock in the air in-game, you will hit somebody who will openly tell you they use some form of 3rd-party software.
    • DBG have adamantly stated that they will not publish a list of acceptable or unacceptable software.
    • The written rules regarding 3rd-party software change without notice and are very vague and essentially ban components that are built into Windows, which is (ironically and impossibly) also required software.
    • To my knowledge, there are no reports in recent years of anybody being banned for using 3rd-party software.
    • There have been reports of people being banned for AFK play and reports of people being banned retroactively, without any warning, when DBG changed their minds willy-nilly about play styles that have been recommended by DBG staff and used by the playerbase for years (#cactusgate).
    Wild-west is probably the most correct answer.
    CatsPaws likes this.
  10. Fluid Augur

    Rules are also different for TLP vs Live servers. Just a for instance that we are going around and around on right now is boxing or anything that makes it easier to do is not allowed on TLP servers. Problem is there is zero enforcement and what usually happens in this type of incident is a round up and banning months after.

    There's a couple of things that have never changed. You can't intercept or change packets or modify the client in any way. For instance when you enter a zone, all the info in that zone is sent to your computer like which MOBs are up and their inventory. You can't touch that info because it gives you an unfair advantage over other players that are playing legal.

    There is a general rule that I am sure you are aware of from your previous play: If it feels like cheating it is. Anything that gives you an unintended, by the programmers, result in game is a cheat. For instance, let's say you find a spot where you can kill MOBs with ranged attacks w/o them being able to 'path' to you. Even though you are not using any hacks or cheats, the game designers want no free rides like this.

    Basically any program you can use that allows you to do something impossible by a single player at a keyboard is a no no. For things that enable you to send keystrokes to say a dozen machines in 20 milliseconds would be an example. Boxing in and of itself is legal, but anything that enables you to do it better/faster then a human being is suspect.

    I use maps and I box, I just don't box on Truebox servers.
  11. NameAlreadyInUse Augur

    @fluid, I want to highlight a some problems with some of the statements you made in an attempt to show why I believe that no player can tell anybody else what the rules are. I hope this comes across as respectful discussion, because I believe you are sincerely trying to help.

    The first sentence is dangerously inaccurate because "boxing" is specifically allowed on the new TrueBox TLP servers, as long as multiple accounts are not played from the same computer. You correct this in the last sentences of your post, but it's important to realize that this kind of inaccuracy spreads misinformation.

    You are right that there is seemingly no enforcement, but I have never heard of "a round up and banning months after" for the offense you are discussing.

    The problem with that seemingly logical deduction is that all of the popular fan sites, which DBG regularly references and refers players to, all seem to use some form of tool that breaks those rules. For instance, here's Zam's item collector FAQ: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/collectorfaq.html

    It's hard to believe any of us have an understanding of DBG's rules when they condone blatant violations like that.

    Enforcement by guilt is an absurd concept that doesn't work. What you and some other people feel is cheating is not evoking any sense of foul play for just as many other people. Everybody is playing by different rules. Here are some things to consider:
    • The programmers/game handlers stubbornly refuse to publish their intentions.
    • Free to Play Your Way® Everquest/DBG's motto.
    • There is no way to know whether something is intended or "an exploit" until after the devs have said something. I don't think the devs ever say anything until after they've banned people. Its not fair, it's not predictable, and it's childish. But hey, we keep paying :)

    Humans, by nature, strive to find the shortest path to a goal and are separated from animals by our ability to use tools to get work done faster. Where in EQ's rules does it say that innovation, imagination, and new ideas are banned? I'm pretty sure the first animal that got hit with a stick said, "hey WTF! You can't use a stick, that's an exploit!"

    This is only true, if at all, for TrueBox TLP servers. But that last statement is so broad that I don't think it would hold up under scrutiny. For example, my mouse has 8 buttons. That's a clear speed advantage over somebody using a 2-button mouse.

    Maps shouldn't be a concern, since they are a built-in feature of the game. But I think it highlights how DBG's lack of any real documentation and lack of an active presence in "rule debate" conversations helps to foster the misinformation, confusion, and fear that surround even mundane, built-in features.

    As for you choice to not box on TrueBox servers, it's your choice. DBG has stated it is perfectly OK to box on TrueBox servers as long as you use multiple computers. Unfortunately for DBG (and all the box haters), the definition of "computer" and the ability to ban "virtual machines" is coming to a head, with companies like Microsoft including VMs as core components of even their Home versions.

    We can fear technology and we can even slow it down, but I don't think we can stop it.
    Fluid likes this.
  12. Fluid Augur

    I welcome the debate, you are wrong on a few points though.
    From the FAQ for Mangler, it is on this site.

    "Q: What things are not allowed on this server?
    A True Box Progression Server is a place where players are only allowed to play one EverQuest account at a time on their computer.
    Doing any of the following on Mangler may result in action being taken against your Daybreak Account:
    Playing multiple characters at the same time from a single computer.
    Using 3rd party software.
    Any method to send one key press to multiple characters.
    And as a refresher, doing any of the following on ANY server may result in action being taken against your Daybreak Account:
    Unattended Gameplay: Any method that lets a character take actions while you’re not at your keyboard.
    Playing on virtual machines.
    Any attempt to circumvent the /pickzone timer.
    Any attempt to avoid or circumvent lockout timers."

    As you can tell, I've been here a while. :) I was around when ideas were being tossed back and forth about what people were missing about the original EQ experience. Out of those discussions Truebox was brought out as a concept to encourage grouping while discouraging bots and boxing. The first go around suggested by DB<or was it SONY?> was one logged in account per household. Several players spoke up saying ~I play with my wife on separate computers so the DB answer was to allow separate computers coming from the ~same IP. Of course this was completely circumvented by no enforcement of the rule and it's probably due to lack of a way to serve both masters.

    I think the first mass banning was during initial release. At the time Rubicite Armor was a hot ticket and a guild figured out how to dup it. When they were caught, they argued that Brad McQuaid had offered a 1 million pp reward to anyone who found a dup bug. The guild argued that not only should their accounts be reinstated, they should be able to collect the 1 million pp bounty. Luckily reason prevailed and they were sent packing.

    That is pretty much the way things work. There is a thread right now where someone is protesting a ban in the announcement notices.

    The banning system is somewhat arbitrary in that you get a warning, suspension, then banning *BUT* it depends on how DB sees the breech. If you do something really stupid the result can be "Go directly to jail, do not pass GO." They don't have to give you a warning and they do not have to reinstate accounts.

    One of the reasons I know about this stuff is I have run afoul of it several times. For instance I have multiple paid accounts and I can't log them into the same server w/o going to a second computer. I did do this mostly just to see if it is possible to box *BUT* with the above FAQ, I don't do it on Mangler because it defeats the whole reason the server exists. I am an old guy who falls asleep at the keyboard so I could have been busted several times as AFK. Inadvertent of course, but still a violation.

    You kind of have to trust the FAQ first and me or someone else that has been around a while secondary. No matter what I remember, it will be subordinate to what the DB game says is the policy. In this case at least, I am in agreement with the FAQ.
  13. NameAlreadyInUse Augur

    I very specifically disagree with the first statement, but I am 100% in agreement with the second statement :)

    Regarding bans, I did not mean to imply that they never happen, I only meant that there are no reports of "a round up and banning months after" for using 3rd-party software (or indeed, any reports in recent years of any bans for 3rd-party software usage).

    You are absolutely right that the Mangler FAQ does a good job of detailing some specific rules, but the non-stop threads complaining about botters on Mangler certainly indicate that there is a lack of any meaningful enforcement.

    How long would you wait at a crosswalk because the sign said, "Don't Walk"?
    What if there were no cars in sight?
    What if you saw more and more people ignoring the sign, crossing the street, and being rewarded and having a good time on the other side?
    What if it seemed like everybody was doing it and there were no repercussions?
    How long before you realize that the rule is only lip service, and the only people being punished are the ones trying to adhere to it?
    How long would you wait on the corner?

    Sorry, that's a rhetorical question since the answer is different for each one of us. I just know that I don't want to sit on the corner and complain until I die while watching many of my peers cross the road and have a party.

    *I don't play on TrueBox servers because this debate is more fun than the actual TLP experience these days :)
  14. Schadenfreude Augur

    You need to look harder.
    A bunch of long standing high level accounts were banned for eating the delicious Macaroni Quiche while streaming on Twitch. The bans produced so much salt and unwanted attention on certain forums all discussion of it was either moved out of public view or outright deleted.
  15. NameAlreadyInUse Augur

    Why would you suggest I look harder if you believe your evidence has been deleted?

    I can't argue with your hearsay, so instead I will just ask any readers to do their own searches for any evidence. I've googled, I've checked the official forums for the softwares being discussed, I've searched these EQ official forums, and of course I've played the game and talked to other players. I've found nothing but confirmation that it is still used with impunity and that the only consistent things people are banned for are AFK play and chargebacks.
  16. CatsPaws Augur

    I know I red that on some guide maybe? It was terrible. Poor guy.
    Schadenfreude likes this.
  17. Fluid Augur

    I'm not sure what you consider mass banning and if you will accept anecdotal evidence so https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...-wars-2019-mangler.257477/page-4#post-3793783 "I heard 18 bots got banned today on HG hill."
    For me 18 is a mass ban, just so we have our semantics understood. Guild wide bans only occur if the members have benefited from the cheating i.e. guildmaster gives you a piece of duped armor that you used to level.

    Thinking about it, I am pretty clear on what and why Mangler is the way it is. Sheesh! I'd bet I and a lot of other people have been here longer then most EQ employees. As such we remember things that went into rules and programming. IIRC the first round of 'what we would like' was player suggested one player, no boxing. DB/SONY came back with an offer to ~only allow one game instance per IP<?>. At the time someone stepped up and said he and his wife played on separate computers from their home so this would penalize them. DB/SONY then modified their goal/code to only allow one game instance/computer. It was never meant to allow boxing by one person with two computers, that completely circumvents the reason for Truebox existence.

    User base being what it is, a rule isn't a rule if you can get away with breaking it. At this stage I doubt if anyone at DB remembers the sequence of events and I don't feel like searching through the archives to find the discussion. Enforcement is another issue, even if it is documented in black and white what was supposed to happen, you may not get a person in charge to allot time and effort into fixing it. On the other hand, the original programmer for the code may come back and get upset with the way people are circumventing his programming intent and demand change. That is the arbitrary part of justice, subjective depending on who is doing the judging.

    This is the gist of the problem. Reasonable people can agree on something i.e. let's have a server with no boxing or botting, but weasel cheaters could care less. Ditto for other things like a RPing server. You just can't expect people to stay out of your face. Such is life.
  18. NameAlreadyInUse Augur

    Besides it being incredibly anecdotal and being from a very sketchy source (by a brand new member who still has only ever made that one, singular post), it doesn't say anything at all about the reason for the ban.

    A ban without reason does not support any point at all (except that bans happen, which nobody is denying). They could have (most likely, even) been banned for AFK play or they could have been banned for making threats to other players. But there is zero indication that they were banned because they used 3rd party software. And that is the only thing I'm arguing: that there is no evidence of bans (mass bans or even single bans) in recent years for using 3rd party software.

    It seems odd that a video/Twitch of somebody getting banned for using 3rd party software exists but can't be found anywhere.
  19. dreamweaver The Traveler

  20. Kurage_of_Luclin Elder

    Macaroni Quiche ?
    From what I have read about in the past, those people who are banned for unattended play or using 3 rd party programs are not just banned for reports. The developers actually take time to gather clear evidence buy watching multiple instances of the same behavior with logs to support the banning of an account.

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