EQ PVP Big Discussion Thread

Well you've very clearly never tried/played PvP in EverQuest so I think it's just impossible for you to see just how unplayable Zek is. All of us seek the classic/TLP PvP experience. This "play on Zek" request isn't realistic in the least bit.

Like I said, and even the Devs said, its two different games when you compare TLP/Live with two different communities. It was an out of touch unrealistic thing to say and if you cannot see that I don't think anything else I can say will convince you.

This isn't the first time Devs have said off the wall things that shows just how out of touch with the community they truly are, the "Casuals shouldn't be allowed to see Naggy" comment comes to mind.

I'm just glad we're on the record now that trying Zek for even just 3 months isn't worth it to force the Dev's hand.

We do realize PVP TLP isn't classic, right? QOL changes, class balancing, spell changes, etc.

Its not that its "not worth" its that its not even remotely relevant to proving people want a PVP TLP. Playing on a Live EverQuest PvP server doesn't prove that people wanna play on a Classic EverQuest PvP server, it proves they wanna play on a Live EverQuest PvP server.

One has nothing to do with the other no matter how many times you say thats what the devs said to do will it prove anything.

Keep in mind these are the same Devs that said "casual shouldn't be allowed to see naggy". We all know how wrong they were about that when they made instances for classic raids and it became a huge success. Stop acting like what they say is the end all be all.

Are all the people from these private servers going to be happy with the QOL changes DPG makes for TLPs?

Will they be happy once they find out classes have been balanced/changed? Same with spells? Abilities?

And the dramatic effect that would have on the PVP strategies they've developed for years? Some of which will no longer work and they won't find out until the hard way.

Curious if there's been any discussion about that within the PVP community. Lot has changed since the old PVP servers and folks coming to TLP PVP won't just be getting the classic style.

I mean it's completely relevant because that's literally what the Devs, at the company you want to make a PVP TLP, have said they want to see before they'll do a PVP TLP.

You not liking what the Devs said doesn't change that fact.

Not sure of what PVP strategies they've developed for years you speak of that will magically stop working on an EverQuest TLP, but the majority of pvpers seem to have no issue with playing on a TLP server. You should join the discord and ask.

All I know is this community has been asking and asking for years to get a PVP TLP. I think they'd all jump on it regardless since it'll be the first time ever they haven't had to seek private servers to find a server to call home.

QOL changes? of course, the private servers are running an older client. The official servers will make a PVP server that much better. Corpse runs? Ain't nobody got time for that anymore on a 20+ old elf sim sorry. What else you got?

What else you got? All from Rise of Zek home page. I'd be all for a PvP TLP because why not, Miragul happened after all.

But this stuff seems cool and i don't think dpg would do it, or at the very least it would make PvP less profitable.

+/- 4 Level PVP range with Free-For-All Flagging
Item loot - 1 bagged item on pvp death
Robust anti cheat
2-box limit
slightly modified pvp mechanics for balance
anti cheese mechanics (including anti train mechanics)
tournament system for GM-sanctioned pvp competitions.

The "Dev's" have said a lot of things over the years. Many of which they have backed out on/and or implemented due to player feedback.

Ok?

I'm not sure how that changes anything?

Or are you claiming if you did actually get a group to play on Zek for 3 months like they wanted to see (obviously I picked the 3 months as a not too short, not too long timeframe)...that afterwards the Devs would go "lol nm that won't change our minds"?

It seems like the mentality here is that people won't try the Zek route for a couple months because they think they can convince the Dev's to do a PVP TLP without that step.

Which is obviously possible.

But I'm not sure why that means you can't do what the Dev's said also and in the meantime? Do 2 approaches at once?

Posting on the forums for years hasn't accomplished anything. Does that mean stop? No. It puts pressure on them.

I just don't understand the hard resistance to dedicating a couple of months to push for something you want this bad. Call them out on their bluff by doing it. Then if they won't stop being stubborn you've got more leverage to throw at them...aka their own words that they can't hide behind anymore.

imagine 500 pvp players subbing for 3 months on zek that would get the devs to make a pvp tlp probably daybreak likes money,more money more developers more profit.

In an earlier post, I parodied that exact same view. Ironically, this exact same rhetoric was espoused as the reason that EverQuest shouldn't have TLP's. I'm fairly sure if you look up the forum posts from before the very first TLP was announced, you'll see them.

I remember that post and if I recall correctly it was not a parody of "that exact same view" that I expressed and you replied to just now. I believe it was in response to someone making the "just go do what the Devs said and shut up" type remark.

That is not what I said. This is what I said, after questioning if you thought that they would laugh it off if you actually did try:

"But I'm not sure why that means you can't do what the Dev's said also and in the meantime? Do 2 approaches at once?

Posting on the forums for years hasn't accomplished anything. Does that mean stop? No. It puts pressure on them.

I just don't understand the hard resistance to dedicating a couple of months to push for something you want this bad. Call them out on their bluff by doing it. Then if they won't stop being stubborn you've got more leverage to throw at them...aka their own words that they can't hide behind anymore."

If by simply having a high player base on a server resulted in any significant outcome of future TLPs to the Devs we'd already see a Free-trade server and we don't. Of course there is a lot of skepticism toward playing on a terrible iteration of EverQuest, that majority of all TLP players refuse to play on, for a PVP TLP server that the community wants locked in one of the first 4 expansions. Early EverQuest is a completely different game then Live EverQuest.

Launch a PVE only TLP with a special Aoc that ports you to a PvP enabled zone that has a daily PvP event created. Not just a zone to duel like an arena does. There needs to be a creative event ongoing that makes PvP interesting.

I posted a more detailed example topic "Best of both worlds" that I think would work as a short term compromise and if enough people consistently participated in the PvP events, would certainly show the Devs that a solo TLP pvp server was viable without their taking a risk on an unproven new server concept. If the zone idea didn't work, then it would be easy to remove the Aoc and continue the pve server uninterrupted.

The "having a high player base" aspect only comes into play here because of their comment about PVP TLP.

And the point of my post, which is either not coming across or just being ignored, is simply this:

The Dev's made a comment about playing on Zek to show support for PVP TLP.

Is that stupid logic by the Dev's? Depends on who you ask but I understand why folks think it is and that it makes no sense.

That doesn't change the fact that they said it and by refusing to say anything else, or walk it back, it's their most recent line of thought and current line of thought as far as we know (because again they refuse to make any other comments so we have no idea). At a minimum they seem to be hiding behind that.

So as I said in my post (quoted, again, below): keep the forum pressure up if you want. But ALSO play on Zek for a couple of months based on their comment. Does Zek suck and is it not what you want? Yes I understand that. But if you're going to have to wait presumably a long time going the forum post route, you might as well slog and suffer for a couple of months on Zek in the meantime. It's temporary pain that should be endured if you want it this bad.

Why?

Because once you have a sizable group playing on Zek you can then go, "OK Dev's..you said you needed to see people on Zek to show support for a PVP TLP? There it is. What you got to say now?"

It will force them to no longer hide behind that (arguably) terrible logic they seemingly have been. It will end the "go play on Zek" stuff. That alone is in my eyes worth the couple months of sub optimum experience.

The Dev's will be forced to acknowledge they got called out and give you the server, come up with some other lame excuse, or flat out ignore you still.

The latter 2 give you A LOT more leverage with forcing your issue.

So ya...tear down the BS logic currently being used to force them to make a change or at a minimum make em come out of hiding.

What I said before:

"But I'm not sure why that means you can't do what the Dev's said also and in the meantime? Do 2 approaches at once?

Posting on the forums for years hasn't accomplished anything. Does that mean stop? No. It puts pressure on them.

I just don't understand the hard resistance to dedicating a couple of months to push for something you want this bad. Call them out on their bluff by doing it. Then if they won't stop being stubborn you've got more leverage to throw at them...aka their own words that they can't hide behind anymore.”

I don't think an entire community has to prove some out of touch request, especially when its just something one Dev said in a year old AMA. Mind you this is the SAME Dev that recognized they are essentialy servering two DIFFERENT communities.

I've already shown you cases where they make bold statements and then go the complete opposite direction because they do listen to player feedback on the forums.

If they came forward and officially said something then I'd agree it would be worth proving, but they didn't.

I'm just amazed how one developer, who clearly understands there is two different communities(Live players / TLP players), can say something in the same interview so hypocritical as go play Live to prove you want a TLP. It just doesn't add up.

Then I wish you the best of luck. No sarcasm.

I personally think continuing the current approach of using the forums, while also calling them out on the Zek comment, is the best, two-pronged approach. For the reasons I listed.

But to each their own.

Jen, Alan and Jonathan all gave the same answer to 5 different questions in the same AMA.

Five different questions with the same answer from 3 different devs

Not one dev giving a single throwaway answer to a single question.

You haven't actually read anything that they've said, have you?

I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings but they will have even less reason to take your requests seriously if you haven't demonstrated an interest in what they've had to say about the subject.

Now it has been nine months since that AMA, if the PvP community had made an attempt to meet the minimum conditions that the devs have given you back then there's a good chance that a PvP TLP would be in the offing and you wouldn't be having all the PvP threads chucked into a single handy dumpster

One Dev (Alan) said play on Zek to prove we want an TLP PvP server, which is what we were discussing. No other Dev specifically said to do that.

I like how you completely avoid how the same Dev recognized there are two different communities, then went on to make the hypocritical statement to one community, "go play on Live to prove you want a TLP".

Not sure why my posting about a server I'd like to see created gets so triggered you feel the need to regurgitate the same AMA over and over to me as if the Devs have never changed their mind on an issue.

Does it make you upset to think people could enjoy playing this game differently then you or something?