Enchanter Debuff Order (Need Wizard input too)

So, when I'm pulling for my group, I usually throw everything but Crippling Aurora, Mental Contortion, and Reoccurring Amnesia at the mobs while they're mezzed before pulling them into camp.

I often do PUGs which means I often have weak healers and even weaker tanks.

My first concern is that when someone else is pulling I'm not sure what order to apply the debuffs. It seems like Deep Sleep is our most powerful debuff, so I've been applying that first, and if there's a problem I toss a stun. I don't like to stun as, if my charmed pet breaks, the stuns stop while I recharm. I suppose if I were nearby my AE stun would stun everything, but I'm not used to that as I'm usually off pulling. Also, the group is better off with everything debuffed if I bite the dust, and if I stun too much, real healers get bored, so when the fit hits the shan, the healer has been lulled to sleep.

So, I do Deep Sleep, Tash, Etherial Manipulation, Demolished Conciousness, Dreary Deeds, and Confounding Constriction. I feel like, in caster-heavy groups, I should also toss Mental Appropriation in if things are going smoothly. I currently do them in that order, but I'm not sure it's optimal as it's based more on the fact that I do the longer-lasting ones first than on the effectiveness of the last three debuffs.

The next question, once we have figured the correct order, is in what order to drop them when the group is powerful enough not no need The Full Monty.

Wizards:

When does your first nuke land on group trash? How about your first Ethereal? My Tash and Ethereal Manipulation both eventually get put on every mob when there's a Wizard around, but I need to know when they need to be done.

If you are playing in pugs with low-aggro tanks, any ethereal will likely be the 4th or 5th cast spell. With normal/high aggro tanks, it should be the 2nd or 3rd spell.

Ethereal Manipulation is rather negligible at best since they nerfed/fixed it, its damage mod is nearly identical to Tash.

Tash = 1-10% increased spell damage for -all- spells.
Eth. Manip = 1-12% increased spell damage for ethereals only.

So, pending the debuff even stacks with Tash (does it?) you are looking at a 1-2% increase if you beat the RNG and roll high for -one- line of spells. I wouldn't label it as high-priority by any means, maybe move it to the bottom of the list.

Thanks, Explicit!

I'll move Ethereal Manipulation to the end of the list. I believe it does stack with Tash (otherwise it'd be worthless).

I still need to know when your first nuke is landing so I know when I want to have Tash on.

Let's say it's a high-level group trash mob incoming from a distance. What if you have a strong tank? How about a weak tank? When does the first nuke land?

I presume on named and raid bosses, you're gonna use some kind of aggro avoidance and burn from max range in incoming, right?

When boxing wizard, I'll nuke at 100-99% as soon as mob is in camp (I'm also tanking so it's pretty easy to make sure I have aggro), I imagine others do quite the same. With a weaker tank, I'd wait a few using only smaller nukes until I was confident I could continue without stealing aggro

I also do this on raids as a wizard, nuking as soon as I am able to since aggro is kind of a non-issue there.

I'd say Tash asap and let it go from there, everyone loves fast debuffs. Weak tank or not

I have other things I can be doing besides keeping the healer full of mana by unnecessarily debuffing trash mobs.

[36126/6507] Enunciation of Tashan Rk. IIClasses: ENC/97
Skill: Abjuration
Mana: 50
Target: Single
Range: 200'
Resist: Unresistable
Reflectable: Yes
Casting: 1s, Recast: 1.5s, Rest: 1.5s
Duration: 14m (140 ticks), Dispelable: No, Allow Fast Regen: Yes
Hate: 1200
1: Increase Spell Damage Taken by 1271
2: Decrease Magic Resist by 103
4: Increase Poison Counter by 1
5: Limit Max Level: 100 (lose 10% per level)
6: Limit Effect: Current HP
7: Limit Resist: Lowest
8: Limit Type: Detrimental
9: Limit Type: Exclude Procs
10: Limit Min Mana Cost: 10
Text: You hear the barking of Tashan.

[38424] Ethereal ManipulationClasses: ENC/254
Target: Single
Range: 200'
Resist: Unresistable
Reflectable: No
Casting: 0s
Duration: 14m (140 ticks), Dispelable: Yes, Allow Fast Regen: No
1: Increase Spell Damage Taken by 1% to 12%
2: Limit Spells: Ethereal Incandescence
3: Limit Spells: Ethereal Hoarfrost
4: Limit Spells: Ethereal Salvo
5: Limit Spells: Ethereal Blaze
6: Limit Spells: Ethereal Frost
7: Limit Spells: Ethereal Barrage
Text: You feel very vulnerable.

Personally. When it comes to debuffing, I'm very specific in this.

I'm a puller also. So I always pull with Tash.

Then I have a slow hotkey that looks like this

Line1. /alt act 2207
Line2. /pause 1
Line3. /alt act 753

What this does is slam Etheral manipulaton on a NPC, and then immediately cast Slow. The bus of this is that you can hit this as your spell bar is grey. Given the fact that AAs are not effected by spell at cooldown.


Next, I cast Cripple, then I typically begin my nuke chain.

However when dealing with particularly soft tanks. I will do "Deep Sleep" after cripple has landed

So. My debuff order looks like this
1.Tash
2. Etheral
3. Slow
4. Cripple

Utilizing the Mindfire DPS meathod described in a previous post. Enchanters can get deep sleep to proc on an NPC while they DPS.

DPSIng as a chanter is essentially lowering the overall fight time. Causing your tank to take less damage.

However. I have been known to use Runic Aura and flip to Chromatic Procussion if I am dealing with a particularly soft tank.

Tash only works for Chromatic spells, it does nothing for Wizards besides the magic debuff.

Ethereal manipulation is an instant cast AA, you can cast it between your first and second spell cast.

Welp, shows how much I know about enchanters. I don't group with em outside raids (they don't exist on my server), I don't box one and I'm not playing a wizard during raids.

I was going off spell data and I must have missed the Limit Resist: Lowest line.

Lesson learned for certain ;]

Well, i have the common 3 debuffs on a hotkey (tash, em, slow/cripple), those i cast always, except, the mob is so quick down that the cast time of cripple/slow lands between 0 and 40% hp of mob, then i only use Tash series.

Deep Sleep only on certain mob and tactics.
Dot-debuffs only when i have a dot set active.

When reading what is stated above about Tashan, im not sure if this is correct, my understanding of it is differing:

1: Empathy
- Havent found any official statements from SOE, but this is the bonus damage portion for magic based spells.
2: Decrease Magic Resist by 99 (L97) to 101 (L100)
- Amount of magic resist lowered
4: Increase Poison Counter by 1
- declaration as a poison-line spell
5: Limit: Max Level(100) (lose 10% per level over cap)
- designed for the level range 0-100. All actions involving a component higher than level 100 will have a reduction of the benefits by 10% per level over the cap, this limited to the benefits of the tash spell, not of the used spell affected by tash.
6: Limit: Effect (Hitpoints allowed)
- The benefits of tash count for spells, that reduce the hitpoints of the target
7: Limit: Resist (Chromatic allowed)
- The lowered magic resist will still be part of the damage calculation for chromatic spells when tash is on target. Chromatic resist measurement means, that a chromatic based spell takes the lowest of all resists for calculation of it's damage. So when tash is on the target, chromatic spells do accept the lowered magic resist amount in the calculation. Malosenia (shm 97/mag96) has following entry there: Limit: Resist (Magic allowed) Which means that Chromatic spells are NOT INCLUDED in calculation of damage and not affected by Malosenia.
8: Limit: Spell Type (Detrimental only)
- only spells with a detrimental effect are affected by the benefits of tash
9: Limit: Combat Skills Not Allowed
- Only spells are affected, but no procs.
10: Limit: Minimum Mana Cost (10)
- spells that want to benefit of tash effects on the mob have to cost at least 10 mana initially. This does not affect situations with "..gift of mana..."

EM is a nice AA, can be casted while running/moving and between spells in the time before the cool down allows you to cast another spell (spell is greyed out). I put in second line of my debuff script, so it is like immediatly on mob.

Great correction, Beimeth. Thanks for that.

So, where do you get better spell data than Lucy?

BTW, I'm still testing some things, so I'll post more when I've worked things out better within a few days.

EQResource: http://spells.eqresource.com/spellsearch.php

Or

Raidloot.com: http://www.raidloot.com/Spells.aspx


Raidloot.com is an open source spell parser. EQResource is built using much of the information from Raidloot.com but with a bit more spit and polish.

The raidloot parser also includes a standalone .exe that you can download to parse the spell data yourself.

So, which decreases mob damage output more? Demolished Conciousness, Dreary Deeds (when the mob is already slowed with 70% slow), or Confounding Constriction?

[36100/6500] Demolished Consciousness Rk. III
Classes: ENC/96
Skill: Alteration
Mana: 296
Target: Single
Range: 200'
Resist: Magic
Reflectable: Yes
Casting: 3s, Recast: 1.5s, Rest: 1.5s
Duration: 7.5m (75 ticks), Dispelable: Yes, Allow Fast Regen: No
1: SPA 5 Base1=-291 Base2=0 Max=291 Calc=100 --- Decrease DEX by 291
2: SPA 6 Base1=-291 Base2=0 Max=291 Calc=100 --- Decrease AGI by 291
3: SPA 4 Base1=-291 Base2=0 Max=291 Calc=100 --- Decrease STR by 291
4: SPA 1 Base1=-401 Base2=0 Max=401 Calc=100 --- Decrease AC by 120
5: SPA 176 Base1=-17 Base2=0 Max=0 Calc=100 --- Decrease Chance to Dual Wield by 17%
Text: Your consciousness shatters into slivers.
Shatters your target's consciousness, decreasing their agility, dexterity, strength, and armor class for %z.



[40944/4877] Dreary Deeds
Classes: ENC/254
Skill: Alteration
Target: Single
Range: 200'
Resist: Magic -10
Reflectable: Yes
Casting: 2s, Recast: 4s, Rest: 1.5s
Duration: 90s (15 ticks), Dispelable: No, Allow Fast Regen: No
2: SPA 11 Base1=27 Base2=0 Max=30 Calc=100 --- Decrease Melee Haste by 70%
3: SPA 35 Base1=20 Base2=0 Max=0 Calc=100 --- Increase Disease Counter by 20
Text: You slow down.
Slows your target's attack speed for up to %z.

[36193/6552] Confounding Constriction Rk. III
Classes: ENC/99
Skill: Alteration
Mana: 1383
Target: Single
Range: 200'
Resist: Magic -21
Reflectable: Yes
Casting: 3s, Recast: 6s, Rest: 1.5s
Duration: 42s (7 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
1: SPA 79 Base1=-3298 Base2=0 Max=3298 Calc=100 --- Decrease Current HP by 3298
3: SPA 184 Base1=-9 Base2=-1 Max=0 Calc=100 --- Decrease Chance to Hit by 9%
4: SPA 50 Base1=-29 Base2=0 Max=29 Calc=101 --- Decrease Magic Resist by 29
5: SPA 0 Base1=-1286 Base2=-1 Max=1286 Calc=100 --- Decrease Current HP by 1286 per tick
Text: You are confused and short of breath.
Chokes your target, dealing #1 damage initially and up to @5 damage every six seconds while reducing their magic resistance and accuracy for %z.


Dreary Deeds won't do anything if the mob already has 70% slow. The other two will make the mob easier to hit and make it hit less, in different ways. Which one is -better- I couldn't say.

Nice explanation, thanks for those adds and corrections.

Only about point 7 i am convinced that something is not correct. Less on what you wrote, more on what which effect does what and when. This has to do with robe clicky (cerebral infusion and Xaric's infusion) where both are applying bonus damage over empathy and do very definitely add the chromatic damage bonus to magic based nukes (DD component of DoTs for example) but dont add if you use Chromatic add nuke options like potions or buffs, while they definitely add to fire based nukes of the mage from tash, but not from robe clicky etc and also add to some spells from necros (though i never investigated to which spells exactly) .....

Anyway, great and good corrections.

I am quite certain everything I said was correct. Can you give me a specific example where you think it is wrong?

Why not just replace Demolish Consciousness with our slow spell. It is a 70% slow with demolish consciousness included. Gets your debuffing done in 1 less cast too.
Using a seperate cripple then the AA slow is a negligible difference. The AA slow is 2% more, but after 50%, 75% or 90% mitigation, that 2% is basically nothing.

You don't cripple then slow- you slow then cripple.

Though Helix is one cast and Dreary Deeds + Demolished Consciousness is two, if you're tashing first, you can debuff in the same period of time but have the mob partially debuffed earlier.

Tash + Helix

1.0 (Tash) + 1.5 (global refresh) + 2.5 (Helix, under 3 seconds so no hastening) = 5 seconds. Mitigating damage from the mob begins at the 5 second mark.

Tash + Dreary Deeds + Cripple

1.0 (Tash) + 2.0 (Slow AA, not subject to global refresh) + 2.0 (Cripple with spell haste and boots) = 5 seconds. Mitigating damage from the mob begins at the 3 second mark.

In addition, as you mentioned, now the AA slow is very slightly better than the slow on Diminishing Helix. It also doesn't take any extra spell slots because Helix takes one slot, and cripple takes 1 slot, so you just exchange one for the other.

At 50% mitigation, there is a 1% difference in the slowing of spell vs AA.
Your method needs to cast 3 spells, which WILL take longer. Your not counting connection speed/lag and the human factor.
Pressing less buttons in the same amount of time for the same benefit is obviously the way to go.

If your truly concerned about the 1% slow that is lost, or the literally 1 second before things fully take effect, then gate. Cause if that 1% or 1 second decides the fight, you don't stand a chance to begin with.