Druid Group/Mass Buff Concerns

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Tracer, Nov 15, 2020.

  1. Tracer New Member

    When it comes to group/mass buffing, the Druid no longer has anything to bring to the table.

    Of the three healer classes, the Druid is the only one without a group/mass buff that is theirs alone and cannot be overwritten.

    The Cleric gets Righteousness which is the best HP buff in the game.
    The Shaman Has Focusing which is top dog for melee skills.
    The Druid gets……… well the druid gets nothing!

    The Druids Opaline spell which gives HP and mana regeneration is overwritten by the Clerics Righteousness.

    The Druids strength buff is single shot only, while the Shaman’s is group and included in their Talisman line of spells, so they will be getting that from the shaman.

    The Druids HP regeneration buff is shared with the shaman also, so again, people are going to get that from the Shaman while they are throwing out their group/mass buffs

    The Druids damage shield, is almost half of the Mage’s damage shield Circle of Ingeous Skin and overwritten by it.

    To add insult to injury, the Ranger, which I thought was a cross between a Druid and melee class, has more desirable group/mass buffs than the druid. I see people all the time asking for Ranger buffs in the guild lobby, which is great for Rangers! But where are the Druid buffs that should be desirable?

    With all the movement AA’s, mounts, and clickies, the Druids SOW line of spells are no longer needed or asked for by other characters.

    With all the Stones, Magus’s, Portals, and clickies, the Druids ports are no longer needed or asked for by other characters.

    I originally started playing Everquest is 2002, and left at the end of 2004. Back then, I can remember zoning into the Plain of Knowledge and seeing OOC request for Ports, Sow, and other druid buffs all the time. After returning to the game for three years now and spending much time in the Guild Lobby where buffs are frequently sought after, I can honestly say I have only seen someone asking for movement buffs 3 or 4 times, and ports maybe twice; a far cry from the old days of EQ!

    Can the Dev’s not at least allow Opaline Skin to stack with the Clerics buffs so that others at least get the benefit of a few more HP’s and the mana regen?

    Can they not at least give the Druid a better damage shield, or allow it to stack with the Mage’s?

    Can they not be creative and create an entirely new spell that will once again put the Druid in the picture with the other two healer classes when it comes to group/mass buffing abilities and usefulness?

    I put this post up because I needed a place to vent since I have failed to find away to voice these concerns directly to the EQ dev’s…… not that they would care!
    If you share these concerns, and please feel free to respond to this post.

    NOTICE: If you do not agree with my frustration and only have something negative or hateful to say, please start your own post somewhere and voice your opinion there! I only want to know if there are others that understand or agree with this concern and frustration. Thank you.
  2. Raccoo Awaiting Bobbybick's next forum video reply

    It's like you forgot clerics have symbol that stacks with skin? Most classes prefer having those two buffs instead of having Righteousness. It's been this way for years.

    It sounds like you're mainly talking about people asking for buffs in the guild lobby. Most probably prefer Righteousness there because of the extended duration making it last 5+ hours. Another thing to consider, you can pop a merc and get Righteousness (although not extended duration).

    Also as a shaman I rarely TB/MGB regen since it gets overwritten by shaman dissident.

    If this is also speaking to raids, druids have had spirit of wood (I think is the name of the AA) that has been MGB/TBable for years and stacks with everything.
    Soraia, Siraj and Tatanka like this.
  3. Tracer New Member

    Thank you for sharing, Things have changed much in EQ since I played years ago, and I am still learning details as I go.

    I have never been in a raid; all that is new to me. I did see Spirit of Wood in my AA's, but because it has such a short duration with such a long recast time, I never seen where it would be of practical use, but maybe in raids it plays a more significant role, but it's still not a buff that would be used in the Guild Lobby.

    I was told by someone in game that they preferred skin because of the mana regen, but I did not know that it was a widely known thing. I have never seen anyone in the Guild Lobby asking for skin or any type of druid buffs; just mainly clerics, enchanters, magicians, shaman, rangers, and beastlord buffs. Also, no one has to block any buffs to receive the cleric's or shaman's main buff. I just do not understand why the druid, which is one of the priest classes, has no stand alone buff. That really all I am speaking about.

    But thanks again for responding. I did learn some new information from you, and as I said, this is still a learning process for me.
  4. Metanis Bad Company

    In raiding only 3 classes do NOT prefer a druid's skin buff. Mages, Clerics, and Pally's have their own self-buff that stacks with Righteousness while providing more AC and Mana Regen.

    At the current level if I get raid buffs including Druid skin, Cleric symbol, and Shaman focus I'll have
    270AC
    28,704HP
    84 mana per tick regen

    If I take my own self-buff and righteousness I'll have
    317AC
    24,057HP
    116 mana per tick regen

    As a raiding cleric that extra 32 mana per tick is worth losing the 5k HP. And it takes 2 buff slots instead of 3. That used to be important but not so much anymore.

    On the pile in Lobby or PoK, like @Raccoo said, I think it's just a matter of the double duration of Righteousness.

    Please, please, please do not get the Devs to change the way that stacking works currently! It's not perfect but it is widely understood. Manage your preferred buff set by blocking the ones you don't want!
    Soraia and Szilent like this.
  5. Ninelder Augur

    You missed the fact that your self buff blocks the most OP buff in game,Shamu Focus. Go parse yourself using your buff set up vs using combo(skin,ward,focus) You will see you are losing a lot more than 5k HP.
  6. Metanis Bad Company

    Reading comprehension > Ninelder sadly.
  7. Ninelder Augur

    Intelligently testing it for yourself to see > Bluntly insulting the person who has tested it, sadly...
  8. Szilent Augur

    dude his numbers include focus. the post you quoted lists it explicitly.
  9. Metanis Bad Company

    Yeah, insulting you for no good reason is a real d??k move. I'm sorry for that.
  10. Ninelder Augur

    His own self buff line is Armor of Sincerity, which if you didn't know blocks Shamu focus(and all the things that it does.)

    https://lucy.allakhazam.com/stacking.html?id=58741&source=Live
  11. Metanis Bad Company

    Just fyi, my numbers reflect the fact that AoS replaces focus! So your first post was misleading at best. Yes, I lose 5k HP in order to gain some mana regen. And you only loose the HP buff and the STR, and DEX! The other components that go with Talisman of the Ry`Gorr will still land!

    So why does my RAID cleric need a STR and a DEX buff when my self-buff is considerably more mana per tick?

    You ever heal through a mana-draining event?
  12. Szilent Augur

  13. Ninelder Augur

    Reread his post... He uses his self buff instead of combo, based solely on the difference in mana regen between the buffs. This means he is not using shamu focus.

    Focus raises your DEX cap ~20pct, DEX is the stat used to check for both fizzle and specialization checks. As a result your mana lasts longer. I assumed it was 20pct longer, but I just ran the tests again and my cleric's mana lasted 49pct longer. This disparity is probably based on some average baseline for level 115 healers in the Spec checks that does not take into account a buff that increases your cap ~20pct.
  14. Szilent Augur

    Yes, exactly.
  15. Szilent Augur

    This is nonsense. There is no such thing as a "specialization check", fizzles are based on casting skill (Alteration skill, in the case of heals) and clerics literally can't fizzle 2/3 of their spell casts right out of the gate due to core heals being blanketed by Mastery of the Past AA
  16. Ninelder Augur

    You can choose to believe its nonsense, or you can test it for yourself. You don't even have to parse it, just time how long it takes you to burn up your mana using one versus the other. Its overtly obvious.
  17. Metanis Bad Company

    I'd be curious to see apples to apples parses posted. What weapon did you have equipped and was your cleric getting weapon procs? I could understand a hDex bonus making a difference in mana procs from a weapon.
  18. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    I would like to see Symbol and Druid Skin have their durations increased to match the cleric RIghteousness line's duration.

    Currently the base durations are:
    • Righteousness is 150min
    • Druid Skin is 100min
    • Cleric Symbol is 72min
    Would be nice to see them all at 150min base duration. That may make the druid buff + cleric symbol more desirable from regular MGBs. It won't change much on raids as others have mentioned above.
    Soraia and Ninelder like this.
  19. Ninelder Augur

    The only thing different between the two parses were one with combo(skin,symbol,ward,focus) and the other using (armour and righteousness.) Same cleric, same location, same buffs. It is a buff-bot(i used overseer to level him to 115; he got retired in Underfoot. Hes wearing a mix/match of mainly old gear. His older gear is the only reason i can see that caused him to perform better than the ~20pct I was expecting. The lower your stats are the larger impact focus will have on you.

    When you asked why you should use combo over armour/righteousness, I re-tested it. Not for the expected effect it had on mana conservation, but out of wonder if it effected crits on heals. It does not.

    Here is the second run results, spamming two instant group heals. The first one was thrown out cause i accidentally loaded group HoT, which would of skewed its effect on criticals(which again there are none.)

    Combo(skin,symbol,ward,focus.)
    -
    Duration from 100% to OoM: 11min36s or 696seconds.
    Fizzles = 0
    Crits = 87
    Crits per second: 0.125

    Self buffed(Armour and Righteousness.)
    -
    Duration from 100% to OoM: 7m45s or 465seconds.
    Fizzles = 3
    Crits = 64
    Crits per second: 0.137

    Difference between having focus or going without:

    696/465= 1.49677.
    50pct duration
    Less Fizzles
    No effect on chance of critical

    Like I said I only expected a 20pct difference, as that was the effect it had back in ~TSS when we first noticed it.

    So even if my clerics results are skewed due to his crappy gear, you will see a marked and noticeable difference in the lasting effects on your mana pool. Just time yourself with and without, you will see the effects first hand.
  20. 666DPSweDeliver Elder


    Someone wanna explain how a whole 3 fizzles effectively makes a 50% difference in mana pool? Biggest cleric mana drain is what about 12.5K ... thats 37.5K mana difference. No way that gives you 50% more uptime. I call BS on the fizzle rate being a viable explanation.

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