The devs seem to have forgotten that druids are priests too. Druids seem to miss out on the advantages that the other priest classes have acquired. Today I’m addressing the vast imbalances between druids’ healing and the other priests. There are really 3 areas where druids have been left behind. These are direct heals being timer locked, heal over time, and splashes. Direct healing Neither Shaman nor Cleric’s direct heals are timer locked. This means that they are able to load any number of the same heal line and spam cast them. Vivavida is currently the only druid direct heal not timer tied to its lower level versions. However, this spell takes, without any haste mods factored in, 3.75 seconds to cast, so as soon as I’m done casting it, it’s ready to be cast again. Being able to mem multiple versions of this spell makes no sense. Even with all of my hasting mods, this shows a cast time of 2.625 seconds for me. Engaged with a mob that is an eternity. As it stands, in order for me to be able to spam heal when needed, I need to have 3 different direct heal lines memmed so that I'm always casting my fastest heal available at the time. This means I’m constantly hoping that my heals are going to land in time when I’m forced to be casting Vivavida because Resuscitation (.5 second cast time) and Adrenaline Fury (1.8 second cast time) are both on cool down. In the same situation, clerics are spamming multiple versions of remedy and shaman are spamming multiple versions of reckless. Their quickest heals are always up. Heal Over Time All three other priests have a heal over time. While heal over times don’t seem like an important spell to have, they can be the difference been your whole group living or dying, especially in the dot heavy events this expansion. Being able to throw a hot on your group to help keep everyone alive during a failed emote or a random dot thrown out by a mob gives everyone a better chance of surviving between group heals and splashes. Throwing a heal over time on your group can be the difference between a raid wipe and a recovery win. Being able to throw a hot on your group and also be the difference between a group successfully killing a named or wiping on a bad pull, bad pathing, ect.. The fact that clerics, shaman, and paladins all get heal over times and druids don’t feels like the devs just forgot druids are priests and then never decided to fix the oversight. Splashes All three other priests have a splash. Again, another healing tool that was given to all the priests, except the druids. All the same arguments for HoTs apply for Splashes and splashes heal more than just your group. When people would rather be filling a group spot with a hybrid or merc healer instead of a druid because of their incomplete toolbox it speaks volumes to just how far they've fallen behind their fellow priest classes Clerics DPS While I’m on the subject of imbalances, why haven’t clerics gotten new tools to use for kicking some real undead butt? Clerics should be the go to, right alongside paladins, for undead mobs. Just like people seem to forget druids are priests, devs seem to have forgotten that clerics should be rocking undead dps. I don't, nor have ever, played a cleric so I can't really speak about the tools they currently have for dps, but I know they are woefully lacking. But Druids DPS Stop. That isn’t a valid argument. Shaman also dps. In fact, I’ve seen shaman come in top 5 on a heal parse and a dps parse on the same fight. Saying druids don’t get all the priest things because dps would mean that shaman also wouldn’t get all the priest things. This isn’t about taking away from any class but to bring a forgotten class closer in line with today’s vision of priests.
sheer nonsense. If someone prefers a merc's company to a druid's, or thinks rng/bst are better for healing, that speaks *only* to the druid player's ability. Mercs have only two desirable features, and neither of them is "heal well": 1) they don't AFK 2) they don't complain about class balance
I agree, Druid class need some love.. they are falling behind and soon to be forgotten as the Paladin vs living things.
I'm really insulting players that think the output of /who explains their being benched for a mercenary.
You, sir, are incorrect in your assumption. I have never been benched for a merc or another healer. I play an excellent druid. Real players can't compete with an AI merc for situational awareness. But I know plenty of non druid players who know just how lacking a druid's healing toolbox is compared to all the other priest classes and would make serious considerations before suspending a cleric merc to add a druid as the only healer in the group, depending on the content they are doing. The fact that you continually insult an entire class because they are pointing out just how much devs have ignored a part of their core being just makes me wonder how many times a healer has placed you on a no heal list because you've certainly made mine.
I agree with most of the post, y'all know I'm a crusader for improving druid healing. .....but a druid spamming 'vida is, at a minimum, probably 5 times the healing power of a mercenary cleric. Ignoring every other thing a druid brings to a group. Anyone taking a Merc instead of a druid "to heal" is an idiot. Kinda detracts from the relevance of the post.
There are a lot of idiots in game. Just spending one day on the forums is enough to make that abundantly clear <3
You're obviously confusing what each person is saying in this idea of being persecuted for your "views". Maybe take a break from forum quest and go outside for a bit.
Well i personaly have Mained a Cleric since ToL and Raided with him, so what id like to see would be a HoT Splash, atleast it would be Interesting, but id like it to be Stronger than CR, AA or SotW. Only Problem i see with that is that its going to be undesirable to take more than 1 Druid for the Splashes along, if you dont have enough Healing Power that is, unless, they will make them Stackable. About the DPS, well im Max AA, and if im in Full Burn, on a Undead Target, with the DoT and 3 Undead Nukes Loaded, using all my AAs with Turn Undead i manage to do around 750k DPS and thats a Full Burn on an Undead Target and i can hold that for a max of 30 Seconds and only if i proc my Turn Undead and the Undead Nukes. Maybe Important as a Side Info, im Fully NoS Raid Geared. So yeah a bit of a Side Step from the Topic
I heard rumors, that druids nowadays are able to nuke mages and even wizzards out of the parses. As with the todays patch shaman got their best heal nerfed by 50% it’s time to compensate for it by boosting druids healing? At the other thread a druid compared their mana-regen with the shamans canni, without mentioning how much more mana shaman have to spend for each cast. WennAa-canni is indufficient to keep the mana up and you have to use the spell-canni as well, the shaman looses even more valuable casttime to keep mana. Sometimes I have the feeling, that arguments posted here have more to do with greed again “notmyclass” than any real concern about anything “myclass” is missing.
To quote a Shaman from the Test Update thread: The nerf you refer to just means the first wave of shaman 3 wave splash no longer twin casts. That isn't a 50% nerf to shaman's 'best heal'. And wanting your class to be even remotely more in line with the other classes in your archetype isn't being greedy. One class asking to be more in line with the rest of the archetype isn't taking anything away from the other classes in that archetype.
Tell me you've never played a druid without telling me... First thing I'm gonna correct is the mention that your healing was cut in half. Twincast only twinned the first of THREE waves of healing. The single most powerful heal spell in the game...still lies with shaman. Now you can spam it in with a dot lineup. Halving your healing....this change did not. Second is that taking into consideration mana cost, when druids asked for a buff to their mana return vs. shaman canni. The top mana cost dot for shaman is the fulmination line Nectar of Obscurity, at rank 3 it is 40877. The second highest cost dot for shaman is the fulmination line Krizad's Affliction, at rank 3 it is 33692. The third highest cost dot for shaman is Fandrel's Curse, at rank 3 it is 32390. The fourth highest cost dot for shaman is Caustic Blood, at rank 3 it is 25207. The fifth highest cost dot for shaman is Malediction, at rank 3 it is 24823. The sixth highest cost dot for shaman is Skraiw's Pandemic, at rank 3 it is 20692. ...I didn't even go down the rabbit hole of all the dots that CAN be cast for a much lower cost. The top mana cost dot for druid is the fulmination line Chill of the Ferntender, at rank 3 it is 36,829. The second highest cost dot for druid is Nature's Boiling Wrath, at rank 3 it is 35976. The third highest cost dot for druid is Horde of Hotaria, at rank 3 it is 33442. The fourth highest cost dot for druid is Sunscald, at rank 3 it is 18248. 177681 - 124495 = 53,186 mana difference casting them all once. But of course it is way more nuanced than that: Nectar of Obscurity lasts 42s Krizad's Afflication lasts 96s Fandrel's Curse lasts 54s Caustic Blood lasts 42s Malediction lasts 30s Skraiw's Pandemic lasts 84s... Chill of the Ferntender lasts 96s Nature's Boiling Wrath lasts 18s Horde of Hotaria lasts 54s Sunscald lasts 30s I'm going to use 600s as a base for the following math to compare the mana cost in reality for many reasons, because that is the lowest common denominator for the bear mana return twice and the canni AA 5 times: 14 casts of NoO = 572,278 6 casts of KA = 202,152 11 casts of FC = 356,290 14 casts of CB = 352,898 20 casts of M = 496,460 7 casts of SP = 144,844 Total = 2,124,922 6 casts of CotF = 220,974 33 casts of NBW = 1,187,208 11 casts of HoH = 367,862 20 casts of S = 364,960 Total = 2,141,004 So in a 10 min fight AGAINST A SINGLE TARGET, druids spend 16,082 MANA MORE than a shaman. Period. End of argument. Increase druid mana regen. That takes into account literally nothing. No canni casts, although in that 10 minutes shaman regain 595,000 mana from just the canni AA. Druids can recoup 42,698 in that same 10 minutes. That's not taking into account spiritual channeling AA that shaman get, that's not considering the spell canni. Let's not even talk about multi-target dotting that druids have to do to remain competitive on a parse. Your argument debunked. But back on track, druids lack a heal over time, a splash, unlinked timer direct heals for that GREATER mana cost over shaman...but ya, druids are asking for too much.
Seems I hit a nerv? As you are good about making up numbers: How far behind in dps are druids vs. wizzards or mages?
Druid Heal single Target: Vivavida Rk. II Description 1: Increase Hitpoints by 27973.Details Raw Spell Data, Lucy Spell View Mana: 2571 Skill: Alteration Casting Time: 3.75 Recast Time:1.5 Shaman heal single target: Matlock's Mending Rk. II Description 1: Increase Hitpoints by 28673.Details Raw Spell Data, Lucy Spell View Mana: 3900 Skill: Alteration Casting Time: 3.75 Recast Time:1.5 Writing big posts with lots of numers may be good at obfuscating what may or not may be realistic. If we want to keep it simple: mind to compare mana per Hp healed compareing 2 standard heals?
All I needed to know about how little you know about your own class. No shaman is casting mending. Reckless or bust.
If I use a calculator: Vivavida Rk.ll heals 10,88 hp per mana Matlocks Mending Rk.II heals 7,35 hp per mana eyballing it looks for me like the druids heal delivers almost 50% more heal per mana over the shamans heal. Don’t take me wrong. I am not against any improvements druids or any other class are asking for. What my feeling is: almost any time I see arguments at these forums where supporter of one class uses any kind of compareing some of their abillities with those of other classes: mostly nothing is achieved but a nerf to the other classes, not an improvement to the class the supporter meant to gain improvements. Isn’t there any other way to argument for a class improvement?
Hrm.. I didn't know wizards and mages were now in the priest archetype. I wonder how shaman are comparing to them on the parses these days... But this thread isn't about shaman mana or druid dps. It's about druid's being left out in the cold when it comes to the healing tools the other priests have been given, ie HoTs, Splashes, and direct heals not timer tied together.
Sure. Compare the shaman Heal over Time to the druid one. Compare the shaman splash to the druid one. I'd say the shaman ones do 100% more heal per mana....as there are no druid equivalents.
Aren’t there any events, where a druid can’t keep its group alive, because the damage incoming is overwhelming the druids healing? Aren’t there any other situations against content, where druids shall gain improvements? Or is the only thing what counts what numers one parser or another pulls out who may or may not register all what happened in an event. Do the parser register, if you have been very aware about the mechanics of an event, which may have led to save serveral other chars lifes? I don’t raid anymore since years. But I rememer that we had fun and where proud if we could beat a raid and no parses have been discussed trying to argue if one or the other has performed sufficient to be granted a spot in the next raid. Is that all about raiding today? Steering at the parsers numbers?
