DBG Make an Expansion of Original EQ

I could selfishly support this idea. It's pretty obvious that EQ evolved into a different game over the years...some put the inflection point at Velious, some PoP and some later. Regardless, EQ classic and EQ live are worlds apart.

That being said, it would be cool to get a *new* TLP experience. I think people love the EQ classic model, not because they know everything there is to know about the game, but because they like the mechanics of the game. They like the simplicity, the class diversity, and that itchy nostalgic feeling.

I don't know if adding a new race would really garner a lot of enthusiasm, but adding new zones and new quests certainly would. It's probably not the best use of Dev time, nor do I think it will attract enough *new* people to make it worthwhile, but again, this is my selfish opinion.

The question is BearmanSW, how many more people like you and me are out there? A think there is a lot both EQ and WoW players that would want it. WoW isn't re-launching their classic game and I think that leaves a lot of potential players on the side lines.

I like Phinigel. I played on Phinny from the day it opened up through Shadows of Luclin. The only reason my brother and I quit playing on Phinigel (and all of EQ) was because we had a network issue that caused us to get kicked off of the server non-stop. It happened after an update sometime during the Shadows of Luclin expansion.

We ended up quiting EQ all together because we thought there was no way for us to be able to play together anymore. Then when Agnarr opened up, we tried again. The issue persisted, but I messed with our router some (I had no idea what I was doing lol), and accidentally figured out the issue.

So, now we play on Agnarr. I am highly tempted to come back to Phinigel for the Omens of War expansion, but honestly it's just too time consuming to keep a character up to date on Agnarr and Phinigel at the same time (especially since we are now super behind on Phinigel). So... we will be staying with Agnarr.

As for Monster Shrouds, what I dislike is the Monster Missions. To me, that was the point where everybody stopped playing their characters and instead just ran the Monster Missions over and over. It was a point in EQ history that I did not like at all.

Omens of War is probably the last expansion I actually like for EQ. Everything after that is not worth my time to be completely honest.

This ^^^.

To be completely clear on what I look for in a TLP expansion, these are my requirements:

1. No mercenaries
2. No monster shrouds
3. No Monster Missions
4. No instance runs
5. No gear vendor in town that you turn in your "instance run currency" for the expansion's equipment
6. All contested dungeons with /pick functionality
7. Best gear drops from named mobs in contested dungeons
8. No faction-gated equipment vendor
9. Most mobs able to be snared
10. Most mobs able to be mezzed
11. Most mobs able to be charmed
12. No mobs able to summon except raid bosses
13. No mobs rubber band back if pulled too far away
14. Progression based on equipment rather than levels
15. No more levels beyond level 65
16. No more over powered AAs

Sounds like we need a poll!

Honestly though, I think there's enough people to garner support for such an idea, but the real question is whether or not DBG has the resources to accomplish it.

I'm pretty much in the same boat with those. I'd also add in the ability to "specialize" your character in terms of gear. For instance, in classic thru kunark, you can have different gear for different occasions:

High resist gear for raids w/ fear component
High HP gear for melees for raids where you're not tanking (monk / rogue) but there's an AE component
High STR gear for melees where they don't plan on being feared or taking hits

In early expansions, you can sub gear in an out in *most* cases and essentially specialize in different ways. Once Velious and Luclin come along, BIS items are literally BIS for everything...every item has that generic template of +X to every stat / resist / hp / mana.

It's boring. I think it would be more fun if VERY few items had +all stats, and when they did, you could still get other items that had higher values of fewer stats. /endrant

Oh god you just reminded me of WoW's decision to stop having resists on raid gear and move away from resist gear entirely with the launch of tbc. I literally had a full suit of BIS for every resist on my priest in anticipation of the launch only to watch my preparations dashed by a bunch of pansy add lite-raiders whining about having to farm and store 5 sets of resist raid gear

go play a different game or make one like that

I'm playing that game right now, right here on Agnarr.

There's this common argument made that somehow the live servers are keeping the game afloat and that the TLPs are somehow this drain on resources that rightfully belong to live.

There are a few problems with this. First, it assumes that EQ would have disappeared before Agnarr was released and is alive ONLY because of the live servers. There is no evidence this is the case. the First progression servers (there were two) launched back in 2006, 11 years ago. Progression servers have been a part of EQ for more than half of EQ's life.

Second, it assumes that TLPs are not, themselves, vital to the survival of live servers. There is actually evidence that this is not the case. The TLPs are by pretty much every metric the most popular Everquest servers. We the people don't have data on this, but DBG does. It would not surprise me one bit to learn that most of the active subscriptions, DB store purchases and krono purchases/consumptions are on accounts that primarily play on TLP servers. Especially when you consider that at least some of the population on live servers are taking advantage of the no-sub play status.

Third, I know for a fact that if an Agnarr-oriented post-pop/GoD-era expac were released with an effort to make the expac more in line with classic through pop Everquest rather than starting something new, I would buy it. We can argue about whether it would be available on Agnarr (considering it's pop-locked) or only for the next round of TLPs.

So. Its possible, likely even, that the live-servers are being supported by the TLPs and not the other way around. At the very least, there is mutual support between them.

I loved classic EQ and creating it again with new zones etc sounds amazing. In fact ever since I've tried finding that perfect MMO experience like I had. EQ2? WoW? LotR? SWG? GW? GW2? etc etc. Some great games but nothing that recreated EXACTLY what EQ had initially.

So this is what we need:

#1 - Nuke the internet - We definitely cannot have spoilers telling us where everything is.
#2 - Lobotomy - The experience of being lost in a giant world cannot be recreated until I forget all I've learned over the years.
#3 - Time machine that can take me back to the single life coasting through college courses.
#4 - All the above w/o taking away from the very happy life I've built for myself

This thread is
They need cease all development for EQ1 and EQ2 and actually make something new. EQN was a disaster from the start. They have multiple TLP's rolling on EQ1 and a new one with lots of players in EQ2. They haven't had a cash cow like this since 2002. Might as well put the funds to good use instead of dead games that can only survive on TLP.

You can prove that live servers are dead by logging in to one. It's pretty simple.

This is true, but the population on the progression servers was a drop in the bucket compared to live population, at least until ragefire/lockjaw launched. Arguably the TLP's are bringing in a significant % of all EQ revenue now but that just hasn't been true until the last couple years.

That's because there was little revenue until RF/LJ. It took Sony to keep it afloat. Sony had a business model to retain loyal customers even at a loss. Enough years of losses and you sunset games like Vanguard and sell off to Columbus Nova.

Stumbling into this cash cow took someone at Columbus Nova to force Smedley out and then dictate to Holly that it was time to make instances happen or seek employment elsewhere. You don't need a PR statement to understand how business works and what truly went down.

Point taken.

So how many more years do the TLPs need to be wildly popular and more successful than live servers before they are considered the main focus of the Everquest dev team?

If I were in management over at DBG and I saw what a little extra investment into TLPs (pickzone and agents of change really are what makes this round of TLPs so insanely successful) could do, I would very aggressively search for new opportunities for investment in TLPs.

The economist in me would love love love love love love to get access to the data and write a paper about Everquest's business model. Usually, companies are able to offer a brand new service to the public at large and the awesomeness of their product will draw in new users and increase market share. Everquest can't really do that for the live servers. Everquest expansions are always tacked on to the latest content, meaning only the people who are at that level can really take advantage of this content. This is a shrinking audience and every year some people are going to leave the game. Character boosts and everything help out for sure, but starting off at level 90 (whatever the level is) with a ton of abilities and very complicated strategies for combat would almost certainly be overwhelming.

So what are DBGs options for investment? Tack on another expansion on the end of the existing content knowing that no matter how great it is, fewer people are going to see it? Or try to get more out of the (growing) TLP base?

What if there was a parallel expansion strategy? Where a future expansion had two versions, one tuned for the then current live playerbase and one version tuned to PoP/GoD era content?

Now who is going to step in and dictate that we need original EQ recreated with updated graphics, same mechanics, new content?

The moment the progression servers are considered the main focus of the dev team, Everquest's days become numbered. Progression nostalgia cannot sustain the title forever, and if they stop making new expansions for live they will lose ALL live revenue, which is still a very significant portion of the revenue from Everquest. Elite Gamers' Lounge has 37 guilds listed for at least some ROK progression, which is still more guilds than are doing progression on Phinigel, Ragefire and Lockjaw combined over the year prior to Agnarr's launch. Maybe Agnarr tips the progression servers over 50% of total eq population now, impossible to say for sure, but even if it is 70/30 in favor of the progression servers, DBG isn't gonna want to give up that 30% of revenue. Especially when progression servers tend to be a flash in the pan and people disappear after a year or two, but the live players have mostly stuck around as subscribers for a very long time.

Progression servers take relatively little dev work for the return on investment. They don't gain much by putting more dev resources into progression and taking them away from live, but they could lose a lot, especially if you look down the road a year or two and imagine what happens when the current influx of players are sick of playing through the first 3-4 expansions for the 5th time.

No one, because that would cost way more to do than they would ever receive back.

What makes you guys think that this dev team, that has been putting out so-called cookie cutter expansions for the last ~10 years, all that content that you guys don't even want to play, is even capable of giving you new "classic" content that you will like?