Crit Rate - Monks / Zerks help me understand

Discussion in 'Melee' started by Bederper, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. Bederper Journeyman

    Hi All,

    Was reading Cadira and Szilent's comments in the the thread on Zerk 2.0 Epic below (https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/zerk-2-0-in-the-group-game.262818/) about crit rate and high hDEX.

    I pulled out a recent parse to do some analysis (60 seconds of Effortless Eruption of Spirit in Stratos). Regarding the crits, am I looking at the right thing in the table below? That is, all hits are crtis or crippling? If so, then Zerk 2.0 not required (an example of a "pro" zerker perhaps)?

    [IMG]

    Also, in trying to improve Mr Monk's DPS, I took a look at his breakdown

    [IMG]

    His normal vs crit is much worse. The gear and hDEX between the two examples above are similar (~2300). So is the difference explained by class damage profile, like Combat Fury effects? ADPS? or something else.

    Thanks in advance,
  2. Szilent Augur

    yes that's the right data. 60 sec of the burn doesn't tell the whole story, but during their burn at least, that berserker no longer benefits from things that increase crit rate. Their gear plus their buffs plus their discs is already maxing out that facet of melee damage.

    Innate class thing, berserkers & warriors (& ranger archery) have higher melee crit rate than other classes. There's a multiplier "under the hood".

    This is a good and a bad thing for other classes, since obviously critting so much is good for berserkers, but monks (and rogues, and beastlords, and bards, and meleeing rangers, and paladins, and shadowknights) get to keep benefiting - substantially so - from effects that raise crit rate.
    Cadira likes this.
  3. Sancus Augur

    Near as I have been able to tell, the formula for crit rate for most classes/in most cases is approximately as follows:

    ((1 + SPA169%) * (45 + MIN(Dex, 255) + IF(Dex > 255, MIN(Dex_Cap - 255, Dex - 255) * 0.2, 0) + H_Dex * 0.2) * 3 / 5) / 8900

    There are some cases where the numerator is not multiplied by 3/5. The cases I found were Berserkers and Warriors meleeing. For them, the formula is identical, just without that 3/5 multiple:

    ((1 + SPA169%) * (45 + MIN(Dex, 255) + IF(Dex > 255, MIN(Dex_Cap - 255, Dex - 255) * 0.2, 0) + H_Dex * 0.2)) / 8900

    For reference, here was the data I gathered on beta (Note: this precedes the boost to Monk Combat Fury, also apologizes for being lazy with the formatting):

    [IMG]

    With all that in mind, here's walking through those variables for a ToV Monk:

    Step 1 (SPA169%)

    SPA169% is derived from AA, items, and buffs. All AA SPA 169 modifiers stack, so you get 230% from Combat Fury and 40% from Power of the Keepers (from DoN progression). Item and Buff SPA 169 modifiers take the highest effect in each category, with the caveat that SPA 169 effects that modify critical chance for a particular skill stack with those that modify critical chance for all hits. In practice that doesn't matter for items, as the only SPA 169 effect is from Cleave, which gives 360% if you're raid geared (multiple cleave items do not stack).

    For buffs, Enchanter haste gives 35% chance to critical hit with all skills. Circle of Power, Cry Havoc/Carnage, and Auspice all give higher critical hit chances, but do not stack with each other or Enchanter haste (the highest effect takes precedence). However, if you look at the spell data for Ton Po's stance, you'll notice it modifies the critical chance of a bunch of skills (e.g. "1: Increase Chance to Critical Hit with 1H Blunt by 13%"). This stacks with all of those other SPA 169 buff effects that modify critical hit chance for all hits.

    Let's say we have Combat Fury, Power of the Keepers, Raid Cleave, Enchanter Haste, and Ton Po's stance. That's 230% + 40% + 360% + 35% + 13% = 678% SPA 169 critical hit chance.

    Step 2 (Dex Mod)

    The next part of our formula is calculating our Dexterity modifier. This looks complicated, but the formula is essentially saying that Dex above your cap adds nothing, and Dex above 255 adds 20% of Dex up to 255. There is also a flat 45 that gets added in. H-Dex is counted as Dex above 255 and is subject to that 20% multiplier.

    If we have, for example, a 1,800 Dexterity and a cap of 1,000 Dexteriity, in addition to 2,000 Heroic Dexterity, that looks like this: 45 + 255 + (1,000 - 255) * 0.2 + 2,000 * 0.2 = 849

    Step 3 (Calculation/Roll)

    At this point you just multiply that Dex Mod by 100% plus your SPA169 chance. 849 * (100% + 678%) = 6,605. Because you're a Monk, that number then gets multiplied by 3 and divided by 5. 6,605 * 3 / 5 = 3,963. The approximate critical chance is then given by dividing that by 8900. 3963 / 8900 = 44.53% chance of a critical hit.

    The major difference between Berserkers and other melee classes is the step where the Dex Mod is multiplied by 3 and divided by 5. Having a Berserker to sustain Cry Havoc/Carnage is also pretty useful for keeping crit rate up. Rangers Auspicing also helps a lot on a burn. You can also see it's very dependent on Dexterity, so pushing up Heroic Dexterity definitely also makes a difference.

    Edit: Also credit to niente for making a great post here (and answering my follow-up questions) from which I gathered a lot of the above.
    Duder, Astral64, niente and 1 other person like this.
  4. Bederper Journeyman

    Sancus / Szilent,

    Thank you for sharing your insights

    a. Raid Sleeves - tick
    b. DoN 5/5 - tick
    c. Circle of Power - tick
    Shaman, Enchanter and Ranger ADPS available. Unfortunately, no access to Zerker ADPS.

    Szilent - excellent observation on monk's ability to leverage further crit modifiers.

    Off to look at Sancus's Monk burn spreadsheet for things to improve upon. A literal wealth of information contained therein.

    /Bow
    Duder likes this.
  5. Bederper Journeyman

    Guys.

    Follow-on question, does this mean maximizing Luck is one of those things that will be more beneficial for classes that aren't capped?

    Thanks
  6. Szilent Augur

    No. Increasing luck doesn't increase crit rate. Some proportion of melee criticals will be Lucky criticals, increasing the damage of that crit by a little.
  7. Astral64 Augur

    Sancus is a Norrathian national treasure and I hope you all appreciate him.
    Duder, Orbital101 and Sancus like this.

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