Coirnav Monk vs Rogue dps

In most places anyone can pull. Having the healer or a caster pulling can minimize lost dps. How often do you really need to split stuff in xp groups?

Once you get to raid gear level, I've found this to be true.

However, when the server was newer and not everyone was stuffed to the gills with uber loots, splitting was a thing. But now? Pulling is more like training -- anyone can do it.

I agree, there is no advantage to having a monk pull. In fact, I spent a lot of my grouping with a bard puller, leaving me in camp to DPS. With that being said, every PUG I’ve ever joined, expected me to pull because their 1999 brain still thinks split pulling is relevant and that’s fine. I’d rather do it and have control over the pacing of the pulls anyway. I just don’t get the mentality of “I don’t want to pull” as if it’s some huge burden to do something other than stand there and press a few buttons.

Pulling is vastly more work and responsibility than standing around waiting for things to be dropped in your lap like a baby bird. People just don't want that responsibility if something goes wrong, same reason people don't form their own groups

PUG groups are dead on Phinny but when they were rocking monk dps was largely over shadowed by charm pets so I would often pull for this reason. It was largely expected of me as the monk and I usually welcomed it because when I let other people pull it was painful to watch. Later in paw grinds with guild grps I was expected to stay in camp as most of the DPS, which is fine too.

Monks are infinitely better between Classic and Luclin.

Rogues kind of catch up in Luclin with bane weapons in VT (although still behind wizards and ish), and again in PoP once you start getting some heroic dex.

And then get absolutely blown away by monks on any fight they have D force up in GoD.

OoW rogues become sort of equal again with Frenzied Stabbing and our 2.0, but TBH even in situations when a rogue is equal with monks, they're worse.

Mend and Purify Body are so absolutely bonkers that even in situations where rogue and monk are equal DPS I'd always take a monk.

I hate most of the responses to this thread. The widespread ignorance about how bad rogues are, is quite frankly hilarious. Anyone who thinks rogue is bad dps vs a monk has only played with lazy idiots. A person who mains a rogue that isn’t lazy or just plain stupid, does great damage, that’s all you need to know.

I mean there is always the chance that every rogue I've played with (on Phiny) is truly terrible and any other rogue would do much better, but Rogues come no where close to a monk in DPS pretty much at any point though TSS, they certainly have utility and value. It just isn't in their dps.

Lethar in 476s, 20360k @42773 | #1 Monk 1486k@3121 | #2 Rogue 1356k@2849 | #3 Rogue 1356k@2848

Griffon Master Ayna`Rym in 126s, 8419k @66817 | #1 Monk 545k@4327 | #2 Rogue 513k@4073 | #3 Rogue 471k@3740

Thulagar in 111s, 6644k @59859 | #1 Monk 514k@4632 | #2 Rogue 433k@3904 | #3 Rogue 429k@3866

I've played a rogue main through about 90% of the expansions, and their utility is minimal. Sure it is nice to have one to SoS and get pretargets or drag corpses. On the other hand, in most cases monks can do those same things with FD flopping or voiddance/impen. Bards can take care of chest picking and trap unlocking. You could delete the rogue class altogether and the impact on the game would be minimal. The one advantage to having a few rogues in raid in addition to monks is that you won't need as many h2h/1hb weapons.

I love rogues, but that's just the reality.

What era are we talkin here buddy? That's a pretty broad paint brush you're usin there. No amount of "skill" in hitting your kine disc every 5 minutes is going to make you magically close the massive gap between monks and rogues in Kunark for example.

Short answer Rogues have much better DPS and Monks have better discs. So rogues are good at actually doing dps and monks at good in 1 min spurts ever 30 mins

Long answer the baddies on these forums only look at the top of parse for full burns fights. This leaves them with the false impression that monks are a really strong DPS class. When in reality outside of Classic and Kunark they're pretty much always weak. The truth is rogues are basically the best melee DPS for every expansion between Velious and some 80+ expansion i've never bothered to play, the only real exception is rangers in SoL/PoP are slightly ahead of rogues and Monks particular the ones that don't have the current BiS weapons are laughable behind. Legit monks with 100% RA will be losing to boxed rogues and rangers that got easy access to BiS weapons. Since this false perception about monks being good exist monks typically outnumber other melee DPS class 4 to 1 which makes monk weapons hard AF to come by in expansions where epics aren't BiS, while on the other hand BiS rogue weapons are rotting 3 weeks into an expansion because even all the alts have them

double post

I think most people here are assuming the Monk or Rogue is perfectly using their discs upon refresh in sync with shm/brd epics clicks and Adps clickies, never afk's during raid. They are wandering water elementals without need for hydrations or need to pee - food? Loot is food. . People playing these DPS classes are not E-sport-Athletes. There are such huge variables in DPS performances that it basically comes down to a players commitment to a certain amount of time period their DPS is needed.

People get up to get a drink in middle of a 3 minute boss fight?

I would desperately like to know who supplies you with whatever wonderful drugs you are on, my life could certainly use that level of complete disregard for reality. Yep, certainly rangers lead SoL and early PoP, but it isn't in melee its with TS running and only with TS running. Yep, monk weapons are hard to get, not only because we are so much better than rogues that we out number them 4 to 1 but also because foolish beastlords think they deserve to use the same weapons as us. That said, BARE FISTS would out damage a BiS rogue until sometime in GoD or OoW, there was that one ~2 week (maybe less) period in PoP where they had the insane poisons on Phini and every rogue that wasn't atleast 20 level below me could stomp me, but please take a couple days, get sober and realize that when you burn everything you can keep pace with a lazy monk that only uses speed focus, or only has it left. No discs Monks > Rogues, all discs Monks > Rogues, All rogue discs - 1 monk disc Rogues = Monks.

No, but if you can't set things up so that you only need 1-2 five minute afk's over the course of a four hour raid, I really don't think you are trying. We aren't esport athletes, but it isn't really asking the impossible to expect people to be engaged 95% of the time during 2-3 raid nights a week. Obviously ymmv if you are in a casual guild.

All things being equal (overall gear quality, disc availability, AAs, 7th, aDPS) a monk will outperform a rogue 9 times out of 10 in DPS situations alone. I'd say 10/10 but EQ is an RNG based game. For a class as one dimensional as a rogue, and with how restricted their DPS potential is if they don't have constant uptime on the mobs butt, it's kind of a joke.

This doesn't even touch the utility aspect of Monk vs Rogue which is much more lopsided in the Monks favor (but thanks for the 6s Mez rogues get in DoN that won't work in any endgame zone since that would be OP, oh and monks get a better version starting in TSS). Or how awful rogues are in general at soloing/duoing before you have access to 10+ ranks of chaotic stabbing AA and still fold up because their defensive skills are probably the worst of all melee classes.

Know why rogues are so much worse at DPSing from the front? Aside from backstab dmg loss, it's because unlike Monks (and Zerkers) which get Strikethrough AAs starting in GoD and continuing into OoW rogues are hosed until Underfoot. Enjoy getting constantly ripoed/parry/blocked because your AAs are garbage.

To top it all off for some reason in Sony's infinite wisdom they decided that all daggers should just have worse ratios, because reasons. Eventually backstab DMG gets unlinked from weapon DMG in TSS+ and the ratios get to be closer to equal, but are still slightly behind H2H, 1HB, and 1HS. Enjoy your autoattack DPS loss so that you can backstab, flying kick and tiger strike DGAF about your weapon.

Rogues are great.

No drugs mate just reality from parsing raids while in the top guild on phinny, Rogues dominates Monks in the combined parse every night for a very long time

If your Rangers weren't beating/equal to BIS LDoN monks 3 discing on Bertox without even popping TS your Rangers were awful.

The geared Rogues in AoS were beating Monks by like 30%DPS outside of the burn phases. But hey for that 30 seconds ever hour that monks get to Focus Destructive Force they're gods and get to top the Real Tunat parse because of it. So that makes them the "best DPS" class.

The only time I see rogues beat monks 30% of the time is when monks are out pulling 50% of the time. hth.