Charm is too strong

It's an asinine extension of your thinking and complaining about enchanters being 'super OP'. Yes, charm adds a very high amount of DPS to the groups. Is it breaking or even overly unnatural? No. Of the thousands of things DPG could spend their time on, why you people are so butt-hurt about a class that is effectively able to play as a DPS vs. pure support is beyond me.

If you don't like chanters - move on and don't have one in your group. Don't play one and don't even look at them if you want. I've been in hundreds of groups without a chanter and was able to level just fine. There are a lot of heavy DPS classes in early TLP's - Monk, Necro, Enchanter, Mage... Literally what is your point? A different class can out-dps you by taking a (albeit low) risk via charming?

Each class has pro's and con's. While a chanter is a great utility and dps player in a group, have you ever mained a chanter while raiding in early TLP's? You have to literally put the players on suicide watch because of how mindlessly boring it is.

Your basically saying charm exp = fast exp which we already know.

Wait for it.

You can balance charm & set the server exp rate separate of each other I'm sure it's possible.

Raids are wicked boring for most classes.
Most of us can steam through all the raids and we all spend a majority of our time in the group environments as each class we play.

Oh I was bored for a few hours against the hundreds of hours I was playing an enchanter in a group.
If that was the case let's give a warrior or cleric a DT ability that refreshes every 3 minutes.

Some classes were changed for TLP like Monks, why should Enchanters be exempt? No one is asking for anything unreasonable, just to bring the damage down a little bit. Enchanters are a support class, having a charmed pet do more damage than an actual player playing a pure DPS class doesn't make any sense. Charm can be nerfed but still be valuable.

Have you considered trying to get better at your class instead of bringing others down so your feelings aren't hurt so badly?

Enchanters have received repeated and massive nerfs for charm that weren't needed. Monks are much better on TLPs then they ever were original. What are you talking about?

Your own misdirection filled attempt at a quip'y counter debate there isn't any better then the last guy's. I never said I hated enchanters. I never said i would want to avoid them. I never said I cared whether any of single class could out dps them. I also never even suggested a removal of the mechanic.

The fact they have morphed into the cornerstone of the majority of exp grinding and higher level loot farming, because charmed pets can out dps an entire group set of multiple PC DPS and while providing absurdly high tanking capability in the process no less....that is my presented issue here. That specifically, which you graciously decided to glaze over in your post btw, I do find to be breaking and overly unnatural too.

But let's flip to your script for for a second i guess. So the presented concept that enchanters could still do most everything they are doing now, while possible still even being top dps in a group, but just simply tuned down to a level where it couldn't out dps 3 equal level PCs or generate as much threat as an actual PC tank over a fair duration encounter....that is your own stated idea of asinine thinking?

Sounds like more great counter debate stuff that is surely not tainted with any heavy self interest.

(as I mentioned earlier for the record, I have indeed mained an early raiding enchanter on a TLP. I've also played a mage, along with a host of otehr classes that are basically boring as heck on raids. still don't view that as a valid, or to reverse quote a few other people in this thread..a WAAAAA reason to leave game world charming in it's completely unbalanced state)

Get better at your class and stop relying on a crutch, you're the one whose feelings seem to be hurt.

Source for these "repeated and massive nerfs"? Yea Monks are better, and before the nerf they were OP. Enchanters will still be strong even with a nerf, so stop your whining.

They don't really need groups, all they need is a boxed healer of some sort to mow down large parts of a zone.

1) Charm no longer works on "Rare mobs" aka almost all named mobs
2) You can no longer Coth or Gate while with a charmed pet
3) MoTM transfers hate from the charmed pet to the caster
4) Charm pets can't tank MoTM mobs
5) Charm pets can take agro when players are in melee Range on normal mobs. Since charm pets take tons of damage while tanking this is a massive

Every TLP every guild has 10+ monks and ever TLP ever guild is down to like 1 druid 2 enchanters and 1 Necro by the time SoL launches.

All very reasonable nerfs. Now answer the question of why a charmed pet should be able to out tank and out DPS classes that are designed for that role? Why should a pet not only fulfill that role, but do it better than an actual player?

Charms don't out tank players. They're garbage tanks with no snap threat or taunt that can't break a mez and can instantly lose all threat at any second due to a charm break. The only advantage they have is healing efficiency when paired with Complete Heal. Healer mana is rarely the limiting factor in XP groups so healing efficiency is only sometimes relevant.

Elemental planes charms do alright as tanks because their damage output is stupid high is effectively becomes snap aggro, but then charm breaks become extremely dangerous because you have a loose hasted charm and whatever it was tanking all ready to insta gib the enchanter. Mostly the case with summoning mobs but even with non summoners it makes things messy and annoying

Whenever I see people say charms out tank players I instantly know they don't know what they're talking about, or are deliberately exaggerating to try and convince people they are right. Groups that have charm pets as their engine still want a player tank.

Highly disagree and the player count of people playing Charm classes every TLP doesn't lie.

Why should i respond to someone who makes up facts instead of adding them to the ignore list?

I loved this write it, i actually know a few scrubs for sure LOL

I Agree! Remove Complete Heal from the game, It makes other healing classes Useless!!

If you think charm is OP, Please play an Enchanter Or be quiet

I mean, Should monks and shamans be nerfed because they can DUO VOX//NAGAFEN and more! on TLPs @ 65???

Everyone complaining feels some UNJUSTICE against them because enchanters can make more money or something ? or FARM ink in Sirens E Z MODE?

Jeez this thread lol

Nothing constructive has been added to this thread in pages and pages. Surprised this hasn't been locked yet. The closer we get to launch, the less likely any changes will take place.

Besides, why would the devs do anything when it's a lose/lose situation for them? If they do change something to appease the vocal minority, then there will be 100 other threads started for other nerfs/changes. If the vocal minority are ignored, they will just be even more entitled and complain that their money isn't being spent on their personal desires instead of looking at the bigger picture.

Would be interesting if they launched a TLP with a bunch of balancing changes that tried to reduce the strength of the most common classes at different stages along-side a TLP without them.

Or really, just launched a TLP with wildly different balancing changes and let the community try and figure out the meta from the change log. A lot of seasonal games like Path of Exile do this, would spice things up. Doing this while shaking up the ZEM and high value drops / named spawns would be quite interesting.

I hope everyone asking for nerfs get what they ask for and all classes are brought down to the power level of a rogue in classic. I think that would make most people super duper happy.

Sounds like everyone has figured out after 5 years of jumping TLPs to restart classic that there is nothing challenging to do anymore so they want the game rebalanced around their boredom.

Charm isn't too strong and the reason why is in order for charm to work it requires support from other classes.

That is called group synergy and it is one of the things that make EQ gameplay so compelling versus other games in the genre.