Chain Spawn Mobs (AoW, Vulak, Hand) and the problems

Oh this thread is golden.

Hmmm

I have always considered it to be an empty threat. If they change the PNP to exclude triggered spawns, it won't be a case of invoking the Hans Gruber clause, it will be because they reacted to threads like this where the problem was brought to their attention, which obviously means they lacked the foresight to understand that triggered spawns would also be fair game under the modified PNP.

I don't disagree with you this would solve the problems behind raiding, but this does not solve problems such as any group content triggered mob spawns. "I want my eighth ring. I'm going to sit and wait for someone to spawn scarbrow, Kill it and get the ring myself and leave the person who did the work on the last seven ring quests to do them all over again because a GM won't help them" This would require that a PnP change specifically for triggered mobs be placed. I'd even understand that they place it under harassment because you're interfering with someone else's quest. They would also need to force GMs to be strict on this one instance of quest mob KSing with suspensions, removal of stolen loot/quest items, and return of the triggering item I suppose.

I agree. I've been bringing this point up since pretty early in the raiding thread (which when it was posted and when I started posting on the boards all together).

You're right, although they could probably use a hybrid of the overflow system for special encounters like the ring event. If their goal is to minimize in-game CS they should be focusing on fixes that completely eliminate the possibility of player harassment. I specifically argued for the repeal of their decision to neuter the pnp/engagement rules but I'm not against finding alternative solutions if staffing is such a huge problem. Group content will always be the most difficult fix because there is simply more of it.

Now I hope they don't change it. Seriously. Watching Detheb get banned for training would be amazing. Watching TL lose out on a triggered mob because somebody else said "DPS Race Brah" on the final mob and they didn't "mobilize" to the trigger spot fast enough would be hilarious. Funny how the "competition" and "suck it up and contest it" and "DPS Race Brah" attitude does a completely 180 when they realize how much they can be screwed over it.

Keep it going. This is great to read and watching more of the TL PR Squad get destroyed for their attitude.

To be honest I don't see TL losing any triggered mobs under this system, they have more than enough players to sit a large force at all spawn locations at once.

Yes they do, right now. But those mobs aren't spawning right now. Nobody knows who will have the bigger force then, not even them.

While I agree with you. I'll repeat something I said earlier, let's not bash on TL. There are a lot of guilds that are effected by this and trust me I'm sure all of them may end up getting their fair share of the raw end of this PnP stick. Yes the TL crew has people on these forums but so do the other guilds and they all have a stake in this particular fact, "No one is safe from the potentially huge amount of getting screwed that these short sighted changes to the PnP".

You're right, but I do think it's fair to estimate, based on past experience, that it's less likely that a large majority of their raiders will leave prior to GoD. Now, on the other hand, it's possible that guild drama (I'm not taking a shot at TL, all guilds have drama) might cause some kind of fracture or split in their guild, but I think most of their players realize that the best chance for them to stay geared in future expansions is to keep the guild together and strong. On the other hand, they themselves might wait for another guild to kill the trigger mobs and go straight for the true boss if that's the loot they want, and not even need to split their force. The bottom line is neutering the pnp/engagement rules from the start was a terrible idea and the developers should be looking into a much more permanent fix for it than simply increasing the rate at which player abuse might arise.

They might keep their same force they have now, and another guild may wind up bigger than them. My point is that the guilds that do what is being done now need to think about the future.

Like I said, you aren't wrong, anything can happen. That's why the fix can't be based on player population, it needs to be addressed by developers.

There is an easy fix that can be established today. I have proposed it. A daily rotation 1 day for each guild and if it gets too full 1/2 a day for each guild. And that won't cost DB anything and i'm sure is their preferred solution.

That is a player based solution that only address one aspect of this problem as we said earlier. If DB decided that this solution is best then they have to enforce it with GMs which could lead to plenty of problems as well. It still leaves many issues unaddressed like any triggered spawns that have nothing to do with raiding. Could I take my shaman into fear, wait for one of these guilds to kill a golem and then steal my tear for my epic? (Oh man there are gunna be SOOOOO many shamans just sitting in fear now)

Rotations need to be enforced by GMs to have any teeth to them. Otherwise anyone can grief another guild, whether in the rotation or not. The best solutions remove, entirely, the possibility of abuse or the necessity for GMs to intercede.

With triggered mobs coming that is your enforcement. A guild doesn't want to respect the rotation, guess what, they are gonna have to look over their shoulders when they attempt a triggered mob.

That maybe so, but then the other guilds in the rotation will have to look over their shoulders with triggered mobs once things fall apart. That guild will sit there on the triggered spawn and do whatever it takes to win if that happens.

This is still a sub-optimal solution. Let's say any guild with numbers like TL's present force right now, was the guild needing to look over their shoulders. Let's say they are the people claiming to crave the competition anyway. How is this a disincentive for them? This is only a disincentive for the players that wouldn't abuse other players to begin with.

No system is perfect even a GM enforced one since the GM has to be there at the time of the spawn to enforce it.

I can think of a solution for nearly all quest / raid related issues that does not suffer from these issues.

The only one that would work would not be done and I wouldn't want it done in EQ, and that is WoW type instancing where each raid force gets their own instance spawned.