Can only DPS at about 40% of normal with new pet aggro changes

Ok, help me out here, how much of that in your opinion is currently incorrect?

In current content, most of it. As the descriptions are based on SOLO not MOLO, as previously stated.

This is very muddled for me. Can you reiterate, please?

And, solo/molo doesn't make a difference to the points I have been trying to make, imo.

Mage soloing = sub-par tank, decent dps, sub-par heals.
Mage moloing = sub-par tank, decent dps, decent heals.

Warrior soloing = amazing tank, sub-par dps, no heals.
Warrior moloing = amazing tank, sub-par dps, decent heals.

What I describe above seems to fit the descriptions of these two classes that I read when I first signed up.

We're not discussing current content, we are discussing one expansion back. Most of those listed are still able to solo to some measurable extent when played well.

Correct. There are tons of nameds that mages and other pet classes cannot tank molo and solo. That is fine. The point of this thread is nothing more than due to the developer's change in how aggro is handled, the ones from the last expansion what we were able to molo consistently are not unmoloable.

The mage haters have simply hijacked that fact in this thread to spew more mage hate because thats what haters so.

Fortunately, I have great faith that the developers had no intention of messing up our abilities on live, and a fix will be patched soon.

In the meantime, go ahead and have fun hating mages a whole bunch more. At least you are consistent in your hate.

Aggro and positioning is the busy task for tanks. Mages have other busy tasks. It's not about equality of button clicks for similar roles. It's about choosing the play style you enjoy. Differences to accomplish similar results should be lauded. It makes the game more interesting.

Matter of fact I read the class descriptions and the booklet...
I (mostly) soloed the Warrior to level 46. I fear kited with a Obsidean Great Axe and snare whip. Starting in Kunark I began enjoying disciplines which made good on the parent class narrow focused tanking advantage that mattered in group and raid content - not just raid content.

and I read the Daily Developer Chats (and later the FAQ)
There will not be dual classes in EQ. No TankMages There will be hybrids which will have some of the characteristics of multiple archetypes.

I read the aftermarket book. And the forums.

I argued on the forums that random aggro procs plus taunt that seldom worked put Warriors at a disadvantage compared to kn9ights with their at-will at range aggro. That ~182HP after knights applied their self buffs was not enough Warrior survivability advantage. That post tank parity the group friendly ultlity gap should be narrowed a bit (not enough to make Warrior the worst of three Tank Hybrids. We don't want to be hybrids).

Yep, I chose Warrior when everyone could solo a bit in current content when they could not find a group. And objected, as I should have, when OP classes went from that to continuous named mob killing and when not tanks began tanking in groups.

Put all of the Warrior assets (including a merc) on the balance pan go solo current content mobs (especially as a non-raider).

Do the same with a Mage.

Difference?

IF Warrior mitigation was so great we could survive long enough for the damage we did to kill current mobs that would be a different path to the same result. It would also take a ridiculous amount of mitigation. The Warrior/Mage tanking gap is a lot narrower than the Warrior/Mage DPS gap.

While I agree qwith the general drift of Mal's suggestions and the tone, I don't agree with the result. Pet classes ought not be able to assume the role of tank. Holding aggro and perhaps long term survivability should be major issues for pets. Just as reasonable damage is an issue for Warriors. Warriors are not a DPS class and Mages (or their pets) are not tanks.

Honest question - why do you think mages have different pets? Why does the earth pet exist if not to tank? Why would the earth pet ever even see the light of day if not to perform that function?

Edited to add - how in the hell would a mage be able to solo without the pet? They are made of rice paper.

I already explained it . It is the entire reason this aggro change happened and why there is no communication from the developers.
I didn't even figure it out myself until I read the test patch notes and how bad servants were hit .
Then I spent 3 hours avoiding almost all melee damage not even having to waste time healing the servants because as 1 dies another one was there to take its place with calm demeanor on the main pet and if, I could do it for 3 hours . We can almost bet half of the mages screaming on the forums are here screaming for a 100% revert because they figured it out well before me.

The developers may mess up from time to time but they would of responded with an apology already if they were not so busy trying to figure out how to fix this problem before saying anything. Really odd how the servants can't take aggro over the main pet now huh ?

That named is arguably more difficult than a majority of TBM named.

The magicians have acknowledged that it's still possible for a magician to solo despite their pets having reduced threat. Most everyone in this thread recognizes this change was likely unintentional and will (eventually) be corrected.

The 'measurable extent' is what is currently being discussed in this thread.

Were magicians capable of soloing more efficiently than most classes? Yes.
Are magicians still capable of soloing more efficiently than most classes? Yes.

Do magicians need to be significantly better than other classes at moloing?
Should their domination in one aspect of the game impact their capability in other areas?

I hope magicians get the fix for their pet threat. I have no sympathy for their cries for increased utility or damage, though.

With different pets in the same way there are different spell damage types and for some useful while soloing utility.

That one snares - useful for snare kiting 1 mob. That's soloing.
That other one roots - useful for root rotting a different mob.

Etc.

No where did it say Mages should get a pocket tank, the ability to heal it/damage taking properties different from a player, able to solo named mobs. The class description I read (which IMO has been updated more recently than some old ones cited elsewhere) say "protect" and not tank. Why do you suppose RoI (among others) insisted pets ought not be able to tank named mobs in raids? Because that's the role of tanks and not pets? BINGO.

Now if your pet was fragile enough that you had to chain cast it, will seize aggro only momentarily to "protect" you should you hit the top of the aggro list, etc. You could still solo. But you couldn't solo so much nor could you tank have it tank in groups.

You might even invite a Warrior to join you in farming power sources rather than soloing some and offering to let a Warrior come loot one. Warriors like playing EQ too and not all of us box a Mage or for that matter box at all.

Raiding vs. grouping or the ability to solo a few names one expansion back = completely different topics.

I have a raid to get ready for meself, so I am done trying to get y'all to see that homogenization of EQ is bad, boring and unnecessary. This kind of whining is part of what is killing this game. Seems the devs are always trying to capitulate to the demands of the loudest few on this board, thereby hurting certain classes in the process, and it also gives them less time to create new content. But, by all means, carry on with your agendas. I'll keep on tanking just fine as always without the need to have anyone else nerfed to do it.

What magician on this thread has discussed wanting to pet tank raid named mobs of current content?

Also where is my snare pet? I was not aware of fifteen years that I had a snare pet.

Pro tip- if you want to whine and cry and complain about something, best to come with facts. Otherwise you just look like an idiot.

That's funny. Usually those classes defending their insistence that Warrior should not fare well adventuring alone note that we are the best raid tank. As if all Warrior raided and somehow "Raiding vs. grouping or the ability to solo a few names one expansion back..." were intertwined.

Pro tip - most players are aware of Mage performance in group content. Many players are aware RoI argued and devs agreed pets ought not tank named in raids - pets are not tanks - that's the tank role. Not that anyone who played a Mage would click "Like" when they know I'm right about that. Also, personal attacks don't work very well with me.

No, it's just that pets should not tank in RAIDS any more than we should allow mercs to raid. Simple and logical. But guess what? Outside of raids, we can use mercs, see how that works? lol

Us being the best raid tank is directly comparing us to other real tanks, paladins and sk's. It has zero to do with pets.

And, unruffle your feathers BA. You wouldn't be in Triton if you couldn't tank well, I'm just having a little fun.

He also wouldn't have so much pet hate if he chose to not be in Triton.... The same can be said for Finalstand....

It is good that I can go back to the old forums, years ago and see the same arguments being used though. Nostalgic I should say.

I would love for aggro changes to be made so my pet has a fraction of a Tanks ability for snap aggro or AE aggro or actual tanking discs. It would be fantastic for my pet to do the DPS a tank does (lets be honest you can not compare the Mage DPS as the pets, considering the pet and not the Mage is tanking). You tanks would not allow that to happen though. I do not feel we need all your toys either, but when push comes to shove I would absolutely ask for and get those toys so we can actually properly tank.

Babbleblade's used up arguments are comical at best. No player thinks a pet is better then a Warrior, and no player would rather a Pet tank then a Warrior tank. Anyone who says otherwise is simply not smart or has played with some god awful players.

However, this thread isn't about who can tank. It is about how much aggro is generated. AFAIK there has not been a nerf to aggro generation on any class that has not asked for it. AFAIK pet classes have not asked for it, Tanks quite possibly have though. The nerf was aimed at TLP, and should be reverted considering it hinders most a pet that TLP won't be seeing for years.

Dumb change is dumb no matter how you spin it.

How does pet hate relate to being in Triton, or are you just giving in to the dark side?

That is just your opinion pie I feel when something does not work properly it can be fixed . There are certain things within this game that need to remain a certain way . If you think I just hate mages or pets your obviously just projecting your own feelings onto me because your tanks also consider the issues you have always caused as a magician that doesn't work well with others annoying. From our time in triton and being close to members in your current guild that's at least 8 tanks that find you completely irrational. I guess they just are terribad tanks too though because that's how you try to counter anyone's opinion that differs from your own ?

And that's even after I have stated you need some boosts to be competitive Your opinion on me is wrong and old news .

Because like 10 years ago they used a pet tank once.

He gave in to the dark side!