Avoiding the mistakes of the last expansion

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Lilura, Sep 30, 2018.

  1. Qbert Augur

    Yeesh, guess I'm lucky; as a paladin I spend a fair time killing those vampires (I just spent about 90 minutes there today, actually). When the drunk-inducing debuffs hits me, I wobble a few times, kill the mob, then it goes away in a few ticks (if not before the mob dies).

    My AT is maxed, but man 20 minutes . . .

    [IMG]
  2. Maedhros Augur

    It is a minor annoyance now... it was a massive detrimental affect for tanks when expansion first released.
  3. IblisTheMage Augur

    I know everybody understands this very well, but just to reiterate:

    DBG is not Bethesda or Blizzard. The task at hand is not applying more resources, but to do the best with existing resources. I think it is a fair assumption that the time limit that the expansion has to be out before end of year is also a hard limit. So we have the good old triangle of Scope, Cost (manpower), and Time available for the project.

    My point being: any complaints over Cost and Time are therefore IMHO not realistic. We would all like DBG more resources, but the only thing we as players can do about it is mouth-to-mouth "advertising", and make sure that the community keeps being the best MMO community, and that the fora are not toxic. Getting more players to play EQ is the way to get more resources to EQ.

    Any insight that can give a more efficient allocation of these scarce resources are valuable and valid, and should be discussed, and it is also a good idea to explore "fringe" ideas, because sometimes something valuable comes out of the process. Good ideas on how to more effectively use the time is probably what can generate most impact.

    But asking for more time, more developers, etc, is not really bringing usable stuff to the table. Almost everybody who has ever been part of any project would like more time and more resources. I think we can assume that that is a given.

    Also, this is very late in the game, I would guess; spring is the time to give this input...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_management_triangle
    Prathun likes this.
  4. Yinla Augur

    No reason why it shouldn't just require all access to beta test. That would get more people in to test stuff. That was how it was a few years back, I myself have missed 1 beta testing as I didn't have the cash to preorder at the time, but did just before the expansion went live, which is far to late to do any meaningful testing.

    I really missed the "what is ready to test this week " thread in beta last year, so much wasn't ready when beta opened, so much was broken. I lost track of how many times quest lines had to be redone as they kept being broken and not unlocking the next content.You'd report something as broken and get told we've not done it yet!

    Beta last year for me was the worsed one I have ever done and I've been beta testing since OOW..
  5. Ssdar Augur


    There was no xp loss in beta so even if people leveled normally there was no way to catch the de-leveling bug until it went live.
  6. Qbert Augur

    I notice no difference between today and day 1 of RoS other than that my gear (group) allows me to tank more than 3 at once vs 3 max when it released.
  7. Maedhros Augur

    You must have super extra alcohol tolerance then!
  8. Brohg Augur

    That's not a special thing, though. With a buddy or a boxed alt - to bop you on the head in a bindable arena, can go from 0-max in like 20 minutes. Most of my peers only had a couple points to gain anyhow, from having max at 105 for their [class]'s Utility Proficiency achievement
  9. Natal Augur

    There is nothing wrong with Skyfire. It has some mobs with unusual mechanics, but they are easy to deal with once you become accustomed to them.

    Other zones have mobs with unusual abilities as well, such as the dogs that periodically blur the tank. Other mobs have strong dots they cast. Once you get used to them they are simple to deal with. It is not due to an oversight, it was intentional. And FYI, these things were mentioned in beta, contrary to what you are claiming, but they stayed in because they were part of the expansion design. It was no accident or oversight, and no extended beta would have changed that.
  10. svann Augur

    I dont think skyfire is a bad zone. My only issue with it is that drakes can melee you from a height where you cannot hit back. They are actually biting you in the face and you cant reach them? That's just wrong. If they want to melee they should have to be in melee range.
    Wulfhere and Yinla like this.
  11. Millianna Augur

    We pay for the expansion - I do not care if they scale back, but there is no excuse for releasing content that is known to be broken (informed during beta) and then blamming the player base.
    BadPallyGuildLeader likes this.
  12. Hitty Augur

    Where are the most players? That says all! Most people come to RoS to get gear but only a small amount to have fun. At the times when I am on, EoK/FM is always up with people, Sky/OT, Gorowyn and HT are wasteland, ST at moment is up every night - but for a server with, 5-8 people is a joke.

    RoS Missions where way to hard from the start and the expansion was full of bugs. Now it is playable but even now it is partly a wasteland - Missions are not fun - they simple suck. Only TBM tops it. And the HA nerf too. TBM was unplayable from start because of the many bugs - incomplete to say at least.

    So the ideas are great in EQ. The beta testing was ok but many bugs have been ignored by DGB in RoS. More balance in the game and motivating more players playing the game and have fun instead of paying their way through the game with money makes sense. Since RoS this game is a game for raiders and people who want to rush to the top like in the current TLP mindset.

    If the next expansion should be a success to bring every kind of player in - then it should have the capacity of EoK - for everybody a bit and playable group content from the start instead of completely overpowered progression, cactii with dots beyond the usual, missions full of bugs.

    If somebody wants challenge then there are always the Conquest-Achievements which are mostly way out of the casual player or the usual grouper or boxer. Else this will be only worth the money perhaps September 2019 if the new expansion is 50% off, most bugs are cleared, gear is buyable in bazaar to play the expansion to a content where it makes fun.
  13. Riou Augur

    This isn't really a surprise with how easy FM is for the rewards

    It is not really any different then the Farm area in DSH in SoF, or basically the entirety of Shards Landing in RoF, both being used for years after the expansion was relevant.

    It probably wont be dead in The Burning Lands either :p
  14. Denial_Sinfae Augur

    War abilities are all instant. Not impacted like us hybrids. So depends on the tank!
    Wulfhere and Maedhros like this.
  15. Gnomeland Augur

    Beta testing is not a substitute for internal testing and proper design. Players are not paid to test the game, and they also aren't game designers. We should not be responsible for making sure the level up and adventure process is fun. Beta testing for most companies is only stress testing. Even when player comment is desired, it's usually on very specific details. You can't design an expansion over again during Beta, that's just not possible with the usual release schedule.

    Also, they received a lot of criticism about the difficulty right after the last expansion release. They did not change it. This tells me that more testing would not have done anything, because this was all by design. They wanted it to be that hard. So what's the value of getting people to test the level up content when they don't care what we think? It's a waste of time.
  16. Buds Elder

    Basically, don't overtune zones. Have a zone that is very hard and have zones that are fun and easy. Allow someone to have challenge if they want or to just exp in a zone that's fun and isn't frustrating. I'd rather have a zone be a bit too easy, than a bit too hard. If people didn't want easy, they wouldn't try to get the best gear/items. They gear up with the best, so the game gets easier. So they become powerful, that's what people want, to feel powerful, not like a wet piece of paper.
    svann likes this.
  17. Wulfhere Augur

    I took up this offer yesterday. In short I found my Skyfire adventure to be a waste of time, risky, and ultimately not fun.

    Port in near Gorowyn (warmly) and start riding to undead area. Being bold yet careful with healer merc.

    A drake dives and attacks. Okay stop and fight. Dead drake after a couple minutes. Invis and continue riding across the lava plains.

    Get to some ruins and pillars. Stay high (with lev) and looking around. Another drake dive bombs me while atop a pillar. Engage again. But this time an orange aura lights up the area. So I move to the next piller, avoiding a wurm and a glimmer drake. Just moving and not self healing allows the drake to get in 2 or 3 uncontested rounds and my health drops by 60% (about 150k in damage). The healer merc reacts and I continue the fight. Another aura lights up the area and I move again. Next another drake adds, and now I'm fighting 2 drakes. Another aura lights up the area and I move again. Next a wurm roams close to my hasty location and adds. I root a drake, and a wurm, and move again. Next that glimmer drake adds. This is now past the point where I can kill them in under 15 minutes and the risk of death is real. I mount up and beat a hasty retreat (no one else is in the zone, of course) to Overthere.

    Zone back into Skyfire and resume my journey. I reach the undead area and while scouting mummies, skeletons, rats, and vampires, another drake attacks me from the sky. I kill it. About 30 minutes have past and I haven't even killed a single undead in Skyfire yet.

    I cloak myself in light and move into the rats camp that reeks of death and decay. The rats are apprehensive to me and the undead indifferent. I notice that the drakes avoid this deathly place. Good. I move to the dragon sigil pad and watch.

    After a few minutes, I see an opening and tag a mummy and a vampire adds on the pull. I'm fighting both of them on the pad and Soul Drain makes me drunk and stagger across the pad. Not too afar that anything adds at least. I can hardly cast any spells, anything slower then 1s is interrupted. As planned, the merc keeps me alive while I'm drunk. I have max alcohol tolerance and the drunkenness fades in under a minute. I kill the vampire first and then the mummy. Hmm, ding an AA and change.

    Okay take a look around and pull another vampire. This fight I get drained 3 times, seems to be a melee proc, and now I'm reeling all over the pad. Bam! I do a face plant and have to reorient. This means I'm so drunk my UI is forced to 1st person view and disrupts my gameplay. This is NOT FUN. I do kill this vampire. I decide this area is not a safe enough camp and move out the (east?) gate.

    From the gate, I pull another vampire and a second joins in, and a third. I root a vampire outside the gate and another. I kill them each in turn, suffering drunken bouts for each one. I reroot a couple of times. A few more AA ding.

    I med up and wait. I pull another vampire and another adds, and a death drake adds. I root park one and a drake, The healer merc is in a bad spot. The vampire that was chasing me turns and low health aggros the healer and finishes her off in seconds. Do I want to fight 2 unrooted mobs and 2 that can make me unable to cast spells now? Hell no. I mount up and ride away to a safe distance. I raise my mug in the spirit of drunkenness and port to the Plane of Knowledge in a blink.

    Skyfire, a place that forces unwanted UI changes and has my head on a swivel, looking high for drakes that I cannot see in third person. A place that has vampires that cripple my ability to control my actions and vantage. A place I'm not actually able to play to my fullest abilities.

    No thanks.

    There is a good design reason why most mobs do not have long duration charm, mez, or fear abilities. It's because they remove your ability to actually play the game. Drunkenness is just as bad. It's simply not fun.

    ps: the only real solution to Soul Drain is the crazy rare Beer Goggles.
    Maedhros likes this.
  18. Brohg Augur


    are you being real here? Those actually do something special, or do you mean to use them just for the +AT skill mod?
  19. Wulfhere Augur

    Very real and yes. Soul Drain is limited to affect those with under 600 AT skill. Beer Goggles can, uniquely, put you over that limit, making one immune to that drunken effect.

    4: Intoxicate if Alcohol Tolerance is less than 600
    Sheex and svann like this.
  20. Brohg Augur

    ah, neat!

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