Sk/Shaman Monk/druid Mage/druid Mage/necro My advice to you would be to pick whatever melee class you like, and box a druid or shaman with it. Box druid if you need snare and you like ports, box shaman if you have snare and don't care about ports. The reason you want to do this is stated in my above post. Druids/shaman/wiz/any caster can be set up with sequence macros very easily, which means you get to spend 95% of your time or better in fights only worrying about one character. On my Monk/Druid team for example. I have a social/macro for the druid that goes something like this. /assist *monks name* /pause 50, /cast 1 /pause 50, /cast 2 /pause 50, /cast 3 /sit With one button push, my druid will cast a debuff, then cast a dot, then cast snare, then sit down happily medding until the next fight. Total time to activate, about a second. I can get this done in between monk cooldowns and literally not miss any DPS output. Stationary characters that can just be parked in a camp and macroed are a boxers best friend. This becomes exponentially true when you're killing your 1 billionth mob and the tedium of trying to position multiple classes has long ago become nothing but a pain in the behind. Best advice, go try it for yourself, that's most of the fun anyway.
My preference would be for RNG or BST as my melee if possible, because that puts me in a more comfortable role in real groups (ie, I won't be de-facto tanking every time). But Googl'ing around I see it reiterated again and again that RNG's "light tank" motif drops like a rock around House of Thule / 85ish and doesn't recover — the line seems to be that from 85+ a group will be way better off with a J5 Tank Merc than a RNG trying to ghetto-tank. Likewise, BST can "tank" at high levels ... in the sense of its SuperPet™ being AA'd out the bum and everyone else keeping clear of melee. So I'm getting this vibe that if I want to get anything much done box-style in the long-term, it's going to require: PAL / SHD / WAR goofball no-melee-allowed Pet Tank tactics resorting to the J5 Tank Merc Is that accurate?
Rng/bst can both tank run of the mill mobs all the way out, as long as they pay attention to gearing for it, like with AC on all their augments. They will likely run into trouble with multiple mobs (rangers have tools to split off adds, and beastlords can occupy an extra with their warder - or two extra if they're slick with their werewolves), or with boss/named mobs. Getting raid gear will let them handle many if not all group-oriented named.
When you say gearing for it — would this be a trade-off game and/or require multiple gear sets? Like, yes you can survive box-tanking, but if you wear that survival-oriented set to a group you're going to have embarassing DPS output? And okay, so let me revise my Vibe™ to... RNG / BST can fluff around playing Tank for a box group indefinitely, if they're very careful and keep the mobs single-pulled and manage everything smartly. PAL / SHD / WAR, goofball pet tactics, or a Merc would be necessary if you want to get more aggressive or reckless, tank multiples, or generally go on a bloodthirsty rampage.
Just 2 box ranger/bst run tank/healer merc. You can level all the way to 105 doing that, problem solved. By the time you get to 85, you may have a completely different view of the game. I personally don't care for the game post 85, as it turns into a serious grind. I have more fun making new box teams and going through the 0-70 game.
That's a fair point, although I'm supposed to reach 105 if I ever want my money (ha ha ha, oh gawd... did she ever take a safe bet >.<). And sorry — I don't mean to frustrate you guys. I'm just curious and excited, so every new option and possibility gets my mind spiraling off on new pathways. I really like the feel of RNG. From the general vibe here, I get that power-wise it's living in the shadow of the BST God, but the more I play with each of them, the more comfy I feel with RNG. It just fits my style better. Even though it's sub-optimal, I'm starting to warm to the idea of 2boxing Tank + RNG. Because then I basically get my standard MMO "dual spec" Tank / DPS, just in a little more round-about way @Ultrazen, since you have so much experience with boxing combos — what Tank would you recommend pairing with RNG?
Honestly, rangers should be aug'd to tank with their normal Heroic Dex augs anyways. The only gear swap would be to swap in a shield for the huge shield ac boost. And maybe switching powersources. There's not really any synergy between the 3 tanks and a ranger. Ranger gives some melee boosts that work on the 3 tanks classes roughly the same. I don't recommend tanks as a first class for players because you need to keep up on gear, or you become worthless. It actually takes a decent amount of effort to keep a group geared tank better than the J5 merc that anyone can summon. And playing a ranger with them pretty much means camping duplicate sets of augs and non-vis gear. The posterchild for low effort 2nd (or 3rd) boxes is bards. They really do improve a group by a decent amount by just leaving them in /melody, and tabbing over to turn on atk. Those two should be swapped. Druids have no synergy with monks, but can improve the crit chance and power of SK taps, including procs. Shm can improve melee on both, but monks get FAR more out of that than SKs do. I literally just can't do anything to improve the pure melees, except for making their procs hit for slightly more. While SKs are the tanks I have the most synergy with.
Okay I just happened to come across this post and skimmed all 4 pages... I'm not about to give you revolutionary advice or insight but I'll tell you my experience: Rangers outnumber BST eleventy billion to one! Okay... not really but there is definitely a disparity in the amount of RNG vs. BST. If 'unique'/rarer class is any motivation for you then lean towards a BST. Also, if you ever do decide you want to raid, you'll likely have an easier time getting in with a BST. There never seems to be enough SE around. I don't think any of this is because BST is a bad class, it's just under-appreciated. What level have you played either of these classes to? Like Ult said, if it's not to at least 85 then you haven't really seen what the class "is" for the most part. That period of time was kindof when many classes underwent a makeover and their new playstyle/abilities didn't remotely match up to earlier levels. Regardless of your DPS class, I'd only consider a PAL or SK for your box tank. You don't have a pure healer as a PC (guessing you'll use a merc) and so having the ability for added heals (you wouldn't get with a warrior) can definitely make a difference. With the SK you will shine at AE aggro but you can also split mobs easily. With the Pally you have superior healing (self and group), but a harder time pulling. If the Ranger is pulling that's likely not as much of an issue in either case though. And of course, the classes aren't that simple, they both have many other pros and cons. If you did go SK + BST you have two classes that can FD which can make wipes a bit less painful
I'm a main warrior, so "what to tank with" is an odd question to mentally position myself to answer As a warrior I've 2boxed significantly and successfully alternately with all three of the other characters you can see linked in my signature, and also with a borrowed cleric. I've even loaded up a third character from time to time, and done fine, but my fun takes a big dive at that point (which might be alleviated if I did anything more sophisticated than alt+tab, but I just haven't).
ahhhhhhhhh OKAY. Let's back up, then, and back off the Tank + MDPS idea. That's probably overkill. I think I'm approaching this from the wrong direction. What I want to try is setting up a box crew that can support Melee classes well — kind of non-specifically — and then swap in my different Melee characters until I find what feels comfy when they're all working together. Sticking to 1 melee that I primarily play, which I think will be more enjoyable. On my planet-crushing home PC I could probably 24-box without performance issues, but on the semi-ghetto laptop I'm stuck on here, I seem to cap out at 3-boxing. 2 boxes is smooth as silk, but the 3rd one gets a little choppy, so it would have to be a low-maintenance character. The setup I'm thinking of is: Melee (All Access) Enchanter (Silver) Priest (Silver) (Before you suggest it — because I know it's coming — imagine me as being on Mayong Mistmoore faction. No. Just no. Most annoying class I have ever played, ever. ) So: ENC for pull control, Haste, Slow, and free race changes (hey! Illusions are fun!), plus some extra nukes if nothing else to do. a Priest for buffs, spot heals, and extra nukes. I'm leaning toward DRU because it brings: Track Snare Root Teleports acceptable AFK performance on the laggy 3rd box ... and I'm not really sure what SHM would bring instead, since the Haste/Slow would be redundant with ENC. Bringing CLR also seems redundant with mercs. Sound good, or am I messing something up?
I played a shaman. I never played a druid or boxed a shaman. Of the 5 things a druid brings, I'd say root and snare aren't issues. Shaman get root and later AA root that's very good. With ENC in the group, stun can stop runners well enough. I don't have experience boxing but my opinion is that shaman require lots of attention and my gut feeling is that you get more bang for the buck in the attention/results curve from DRU. I also think you'll have AA issues with a silver shaman especially if you do AA autogrant.
As someone who has gone through very similar debates and lines of thinking myself, my best advice is to just start trying some of these combos and see what you like. You can only glean so much from reading about it vs actually doing it. I spent countless hours searching for the perfect combo. I felt I found it with Mage, Enchanter and Wizard. It was undoubtedly a very powerful and convenient combo. It was also very boring (for me). Although great on paper, I didn't actually have much fun playing it, and it wasn't until I had the experience of doing it that I came to that realization. I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but get off the forums and just get in game and start experimenting. Go with your gut and if it doesn't work out, try something else. You'll drive yourself nuts searching for the perfect combo and even when you find it you may not enjoy playing it.
That's common when trying to come up with a "perfect class" or a "perfect box setup" and I know the feeling well. It can get complicated, especially if you plan to keep some of your account free. In addition, you happen to have different requirements for grouping/boxing, which makes it even more complicated. If you like playing a Ranger, I would recommend playing a Ranger. Classes get buffed and nerfed all the time, so who knows what the relative power of Rangers and Beastlords will be by the time you get to 105? And if you don't like the class you are playing, chances are that you will get bored and quit long before you reach 105. Another thing to keep in mind is that, as others have said, it's hard to form a good idea of what a class feels like at higher levels until you get there. Soloing a 50s character with an overpowered (prior to 60) tank merc doesn't tell you much about the way things will be later on. What I would do is take your Ranger to at least 75-80, preferably 85, get the auto-grant AAs and see what you think about the play style. If you like it and think that having a boxed character would be beneficial, you could then power-level one or two classes fairly quickly. Or simply buy a Heroic character.
Classes have different 'inflection points', big 'game changer' ability gains. Ranger definitely has one of the later good ones, picking up Blusterbolt at level 90
Dru + Enc? You're building a caster group! I'm going to assume the 3 merc slots are either J5 healer (if your melee is well equipped) + 2 wiz mercs, or J5 tank + 2 healer mercs (if your melee is badly equipped). For the priest slot, shm do more for melee with their epic click, snow leopard, and stat buffs. Druid have more support for casters because of Group Black Wolf and an an aura that procs a dd on detrimental spells, we also do have the same str buff that shms have. If you're looking at just the ranger's damage output, the shm would provide more. But in terms of total group dps, a druid will be better due to druid personal dps and adps for wiz mercs. Plus ports and evac are nice things to have. ENCs have haste, which also adds a bit to crits for melee, plus a bunch of caster adps. Most of the adps is in the same style as druids, but better. Having both does mean your group spends more time in boosted mode. Haste by itself isn't that big a deal, you can buy 30min 50% haste potions in PoK for about 8pp. And yes, everything you want from the enc is better done by bards, plus they are super easy to use as an ignored box. If run by an actual player, both can do some amazing things, but that's not what you're looking for. If you're looking for a low attention box, haste, overhaste, plus situationally adjustable additional buff, then bards are the clear winners. All that said, thanks to mercs, basically any 2 or 3 class combo in the game can get things done. Not EVERYTHING, there's going to be some missions, achievements, and named that will need help from other players. But you can pretty much throw anyone together and be able to kill some things and probably camp some easy named or missions. Some class combos will be better than others due to synergy or effortayoff returns. But even two rogues can get together, summon a tank and clr merc, and do some HAs or easy missions. You're also way below the point in the game where classes start to act the way they do at max level. Almost nothing gets backfilled, so for example, you won't see a passthough nuke+heal for a druid till the mid 80s. Because boxing at 50 with a few slow reuse skills and long cast time spells is a hell of a lot different from boxing at 90+ with piles of short use skills and quicker cast spells.
Just to note, you do realize, Silver is not available to newer accounts? It's Bronze or Gold (All-Access). Silver only existed for purchase for the first year(s) of free-to-play, and still for grandfathered in, old accounts. For the first 50-60 levels there isn't much noticeable difference, other than the not talking in any channels other than default and Newbie channel. I.e. no general chat. After 60 or a bit higher, the 250 AA limit may start to get annoying, and probably definitely will by the 70 even if careful and choosy. There are Station Cash AA extenders you can buy however, so with a few can probably make it to 85 or 90 as boxes. Sorry if someone already mentioned it, but I didn't see it glancing over the newer posts. Yther Ore.
Thanks everyone (especially the super-detailed posts). Right now I'm rolling just RNG + ENC, since I had my ENC hanging around already from when I was trying stuff out with casters, but I'd need to level DRU or SHM from scratch to add it in. Just trying to get the hang of boxing for now, see if I even need more, and feel out what I'd want if I did add a 3rd. I have to admit it's kind of slick to be running around as RNG but: Have Haste-on-demand, I always Hasted my mercs as ENC, but it's totally different to get it delivered permanently as a melee class and feel the difference. Keep everything I meet Slow/Crippled. Probably not necessary at these levels, but makes a noticeable difference. Have perma-Clarity. /shrug and not really stress much if I do Harmony wrong or otherwise bumble and overpull. I can deffo see why you guys get hooked on boxing and playing Class Tetris. For right now I'll listen to your (repeated) advice and just calm down & level this duo, try to get deeper in than the initial fasttrack levels. It's very fun so far, anyway. Ooooh so this page from 2012 that Google brought up is not accurate then, I assume. >.< There's no fancy upgrade if you spend at least USD 5.00 in SC now?
Unfortunately no. Bronze still isn't terrible (other than the chat thing really, really ... I mean REALLY bugs me). The other stuff you can get around spending some money if you're not a tank. And even then, going All Access for a month to get the AutoGrant AAs and make a bunch of levels isn't too bad. Yther Ore.
I wanted to bring this back up. You've played a bunch of games made in the last 10 years, maybe even read articles on game design, like Sirlin's DK2 article about establishing consistent rules within your game, and using in-game information to lead players where they should be going. Forget all of that. Everquest lies to you every way it can. Lies of omission, misdirection, and just straight up untruthful information. But not consistently, sometimes it tells the truth. Early EQ was all about trying obfuscate information away from players. Later stuff isn't as malicious in its intent, it's more lazy, or was never updated after later changes. One of EQ's quirks is that chunks of content are done by one person. So you might have the quest line in one zone made by a dev who uses modern game design, and the next zone by a dev that doesn't. Add in later patches, content additions, and bug fixes, and you have a game with very bad consistency with its internal content rules. Your best resources for learning about EQ are other players and 3rd party sites like zams eqresource, and the newbie sites linked in various sigs/posts. (The deeper engine level rules ARE consistent, but those are harder to learn. And not really used in content.)
Very true, ironically my two active MMOs right now are EQ (which I've played since beta back in 98/99) and SWTOR which I've played since it's beta (topped a char in the first week, timed perfectly with some christmas time off work). EQ was before the idea of swapping roles like that. It's more of a case of each class is a choice in and of itself and you can play that class a bit differently and get somewhat different results, but will never break out of that design. Some parallels: A Marauder in SWTOR is pure DPS, no tank or heal options... They're in ways like a Wizard or Ranger in EQ. They really can't play any other role, but being in medium armor they are kind of like Rangers, they can take a couple more hits than say an Sorc or Assassin DPS. A Wizard might be like a sniper in that regard. They are the classes in SWTOR that don't have a choice but can approach their class differently if they choose (but they are still just DPS). That's how classes in EQ are pretty much. With some classes having more utility and versatility than others, but on a much smaller scale. With that said, with mercs you can pretty much play what you want. Ranger vs Beastlord, I think you'd enjoy either one, just different play styles. I'd say play each up to level 20-30 or so and see what sticks *shrug*. Boxing isn't required, but as someone else mentioned it's addictive. It's a lot of fun if you like the idea of forming group combos... etc
