As a single grouper, myself, I am going to tell you that this is something you do NOT want to see. Why? Because SOE would apply something like this across the board. There would be no exceptions. You zone into South Qeynos, you gear would wind up with the stats of burlap (at best). RoF Tier 2 raid gear, RoF Tier 2 group gear, VoA Tier 4 group gear, it doesn't matter. Your armor would function as if it were burlap and your weapons would function no better than a rusty dagger. In other words, if you are in zone X, your gear would function like it came from zone X. This means that raiders would not have an advantage in group content when they "drop down" but neither would groupers when they dropped down. You aren't the first to present this idea. You probably won't be the last. It is usually presented as a way to promote "fairness" but unless it applies to everyone it will be anything but fair. So don't think for one second that this would apply to ONLY raiders and we would be exempt. It would be applied to everyone, in the interests of "fairness". Personally, I LIKE being able to overpower older group content and even some older raid content. It makes it easier for me to twink my alts.
Raiders want hard group zone? They already have them, sort of. You guys want challenge? Every night across all servers, have your tanks and healers run the 2nd RoF missions that are roadblocks for the vast majority. Carry those groupers through this. Might be a bit more difficult than was originally asked for, when having to carry group tanks or healers, but, getting it done for the DPS should be feasible. You could make sign up sheets here or your server's forums. I know a few 5 or 6 hour Queens Decree runs would probably burn out people, so make sure to have a good rotation on those. Hey, it might even turn in to a good recruiting tool.
I think the request here is more: My guild has a group of Cleric, Warrior, Wizard, Shaman, Ranger and Bard (all mains, none boxed) want something pseudo challenging and pseudo rewarding due to that challenge, to mess around in when we are not raiding. You know, the other 160+ hours of the week. The answer to this request isn't "Lol kick the cleric and warrior, pick up timbob and jonsnow to be your healer and tank".
Yeah point is though, we already get asked this because some can only be done with a specific group, leaving out others or putting an unfair burden on those that have constantly repeat these tough and not always winnable missions. For raiders the hard exists. You just need them give better rewards.
First of all, LOL at bringing up OMM missions as your example of when raiders suffer. I almost fell out of my chair. I am one of those horrible raiders you speak of, and I did find it challenging to stay awake through those missions as I boxed each one in about a half hour a piece or less (depending how lazy I felt). You will be shocked to know I used classes I normally don't use since I knew of their OP tendencies back in original EQ days, those being NEC/MAG/CLR (Complete Heal lives once again!). This is more an original since 1999 EQ player issue more than a raider/nonraider issue. Absolutely horrible example. Use Chapter 2 or Xorbb 3 next time, is a much better example of how little your gear can matter if you can't play. Anyways Oranges, now that I got that out of my system, I think I know why you hate raiders so much. I am guessing you only have experiences with raid alts or the 20-60 % who just ride the wave on raids to free loot, not any actual Raid Leaders or some of the core people who really make it happen. I suspect your opinion of raiders would be much different if you got some of the people who really make raids happen. I am curious if these tanks pulling 10 mobs were shadowknights though, as I completely understand the desire to do such a thing to break the boredom every once in awhile, especially if the mobs only hitting for 10k or so. An SK can totally do this with some healing/dps support, I box do it all the time. Main important thing is to get 5-6 mobs down in about 2 mins before the SK runs out of tricks to super tank through the 10. I used to pull this in grounds mission all the time back when HoT was current in the Bixie hive area, is quite fun.
You cannot compare raiders game with groupers game. As a shaman, my roles change dramatically in both of those instances. Raiders get the gear they need to raid. Groupers get the gear they need to group. Groupers don't get that a high percentage of raiders are either maxed AA or don't group very much at all and when they do group its to check the box for some mission or to replace lost exp while raiding. There is a small percentage who don't follow this but if you want to see the proof, just do a who all raiding guild on your servers on off raid hours. The population will be less than 20 most days. NToV is perfect content for the OP. It provides exactly what he asked for in his post.
Just did Queen's Decree (Grelleth2) on Sunday for the first time and can I say yes that definitely should be something to what he wants - a challenge. Cleric, Mage, Ranger, Bard who also boxed a Warrior, Shaman. We won but think there were probably 15-20 total deaths between us as we figured out the event for the first time.
I'll try to look at this semi objectively. I can see how some of the raider comments can annoy some groupers, but I can also see how Oranges remarks are pretty annoying to raiders. It's like *some* raiders are trying to make it seem like raiding is such a greater standard of gaming skill than group content, but at the same time it's like oranges is trying to totally undermine and remove all achievements from what raiders complete At one point i'd say that Raiding did require a far greater amount of skill than grouping but as the game has gotten older that gap has sealed, and honestly most of eq for both raiders AND groupers is very very trivial, there is a small 1 percent portion of the game that can challenge both factions though. With the exception of the 2nd mission from each tier 2 zone and perhaps xolok the blind the entire group game is very very trivial (and i say that as a grouper, though i've completed everything) I also have seen pretty much all of the raids be it on beta or past expansions (though I have not seen the first or second xorbb raid personally) But there is no denying that even though EQ is mostly easy that Raids like Xorbb 1 are a true achievement and do take skill. To be fair I do not think it takes more skill to be a grouper nor do i think it takes more skill to be a raider, both sides have their own DIFFERENT types of challenges and are pretty much equal, Alaris and RoF have both really sealed the gap in what skillsets players need to complete group content, prior to alaris though Raiders were required to have a more diverse set of skills than groupers but now the skillsets required are pretty much equal. That all being said.. Whoever the guy was that was citing monster missions as part of their argument for challenging group content is pretty funny. Monster missions aren't challenging at all they are just boring and pretty much have a universal "strat" that once figured out trivializes the entire thing. I also hope we dont see any monster missions ever again in this game goin forward. They are not fun. I do not like being "challenged" by my knowledge of a stupid shroud classes ability, i want to be tested and challenged by the abilities of my main. Summary: 99 percent of EQ is easy groupers in group gear have a small handful of things that will test them while wearing group gear raiders will have a small handful of 1 or 2 raids that really test them while wearing raid gear Aside from that everything is a snooze fest.
That's the thing, though, it's not monotony, at least not to most raiders. I know I personally LIKE learning new mechanics and absolutely love that little rush you get when you see things finally click and a raid goes from "How the heck do we do this!?" to "welcome to farm status". Frustration, maybe, but only at silly mechanics that cause wipes from one person having a real life emergency. My point was more the whole "for easy mode, most raiders sure spend a whole lot of time earning negative exp and not getting gear" part of the post han my digression into complaining about a particularly lame wipe I've experienced. Also another note of thanks for the continuing comedy. This is some serious fun!
OMG, you got me . But... *lip trembles* how will I ever become as awesome as you, Mr. Elite-OMM-grouper, Sir, if you refuse to let me into your group? How can I learn to give up my evil and selfish raider behaviour to learn from a true master of EverQuest when I am not allowed to step into your enlightened presence? There is only one consequence: I will throw away all my raid armor and dance nakkid in PoK hoping to attract enough pity to be allowed to participate in an OMM mission lead by the supreme being called "Oranges".
Sorry, can't do that, cause then you would become a raid-geared person and thus you couldn't play as well on those skill-defining OMM-missions anymore
How can you make a zone challenging to a 150K hp /12Kac tank. YET keep it even moderately realistic or possible for groupers who don't reach anywhere near those stats? I also know there are those out there who have better stats than what I describe above.
Short answer, you can't. The 150k hp/12k ac tank's only option is to purposely tank more mobs then necessary to keep things interesting. Had me some fun doing that in Chapter last night, 3-4 undead paladins dying to my SK amazingness, good times! Getting collectibles to extort for plat, gooder times!
You want harder group content ? TAKE OFF YOUR RAID GEAR and use GROUP GEAR. Otherwise stop asking they won't do it. Take off that raid tank gear see how well your skills hold up
OMMs were fun but they don't test crap a could do an OMM. How about they just make raid gear flagged for raid zones only that or bring the stats down to group levels when you're not in a raid zone $$$ Love that idea don't you raiders lol. (if they do this it is not my fault I do not take blame for this idea).
