Feedback: New Servers announcement

Dude said he didn't understand why people didn't like boxing servers and accused those folks of being shady in some manner. I shared my thoughts on perfectly non-shady reasons why people could be adamantly anti-boxing server. I was fairly polite about it, don't see why you feel the need to attack. (And plenty of folks are out there campaigning for the removal of truebox on all servers moving forward, so yes, and there have definitely been people who requested they remove truebox from teek.)

Having a boxing server isn't going to change the population of Teek in any measurable amount. Folks who care that much about boxing on one computer won't play on Teek anyway, folks who aren't bothered that much by truebox are still going to box on Teek because in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. Why would they give up their advantage by going to the boxing server? I guess there is a small population that is super annoyed by truebox but not enough to stop them from playing on a truebox server that also don't enjoy the advantage that they gain from boxing on a truebox server and those folks might move to your hypothetical non-truebox Tormax. For the most part though, non-truebox on Tormax won't make a dent in the Teek population.

I also wish a lot more of Oakwynd was incorporated into these servers.

Whats fun with random loot is a ton of epic items are now on loot tables, so random loot removes a few of the bottlenecks. Random loot increases the amount of desirable rare mobs exponentially, further reducing the need for FTE.

As always, random loot accidentally solves a lot of the issues plaguing TLP, especially paired with free trade. I'm still gonna miss heirloom shared banking and lockouts not being account wide. Man Oakwynd had some amazing ideas.

Random loot is great because it bothers professional krono farmers. They'll have a hard time monopolizing nameds, tho I'm sure they'll be very active on Teek, unfortunately.
With the huge loot rate, people won't need to buy from them (not to say they ever need to, gear is easy to get in standard EQ). Not buying from farmers is imo the best way to enjoy the game because any loot you get is much more rewarding. Don't buy PL as well and maybe we'll get rid of them faster this time! But I digress

I believe TLPs originally launched as single servers then due to popularity they got cloned into double servers. At no point has a third server ever been added. If Teek & Tormax launch as is Teek will most likely be unplayable. It will be upwards to five hour ques and so many people trying to get in that the server most likely won't even be able to handle it and crash.

As of 4/9, a SINGLE guild, The Heroic Few has come out saying they will be going to Tormax, someone said Rapiers will be going as well but it has yet to be confirmed.

Thats for TWO Teek rule-set servers and we will only be getting one. I don't care about the rule-set in the end, I just wanna be able to login and play the game.

To clarify: Simply having an opinion is no big deal. I said I don't understand the viciousness; that's the thing that makes me suspect bad motives. The Venn diagram of people who really, really hate Truebox and people who are afraid of getting caught cheating it isn't quite a circle, but I'd venture there's a lot of overlap. Same goes with people who hate FTE and people who want to monopolize money camps and killsteal/grief in order to get and keep them--not always the same folks, but still plenty of overlap.

Respectfully, I'm going to paraphrase because you're certainly onto something: I like truebox because I want people to have to depend on me.

I don't necessarily disagree. Part of the reason we are inundated this time every year with "What class should I play for reasons x, y, z, and [insert hypothetical edge case]?" posts (and I'm as guilty as anyone) is that, by design, this game expects and even demands that kind of player interdependency. In fact it's part of the reason we all keep coming back to the game. People choose what class to play as a way of choosing what service they intend to provide others (or choosing how to be least dependent on others).

Except, traditional or not, maintaining that design even with the knowledge that it directly harms others is a fundamentally selfish position, isn't it? I don't want to get too deep into the weeds of virtue ethics, but the argument is essentially that your friends (or hypothetical future friends) have solved the problem of needing you, creating in the process a more convenient gaming experience for themselves, and you don't like that because providing the said service is rewarding to you, so you want a rule to keep them from solving that problem.

By way of example: Why do I want to be rich? So I can be generous. The goodness of the generosity doesn't change the motivation, and even if you think virtue ethics is horsesh*t, the hard reality is that Truebox servers mean more people waiting LFG, more people waiting for taxis, more people soliciting buffs before camp--in short, more people devoting their play time to things other than rewarding play. OR it means people continue to solve the dependency problem, sometimes by boxing, but it just costs them some (trivial, but non-zero) extra time and energy to implement a solution that enables them to box (and some people just cheat). In reality, it's both.

I'm not saying that to be disparaging. After all, clearly DBG and a large number of community members believe that tradeoff is worth it to get a closer, if still imperfect, approximation of EQ as it existed in 1999/2000. And to be clear, I'm on the fence. I think the triviality of trueboxing a second or third character makes it a wash for the overwhelming majority of people who still play EQ. The demographic skews older, which means more financially secure and tech-savvy adults in the playerbase (i.e., people for whom boxing under any ruleset is genuinely trivial). On the same token, if you have friends you play with, it really ought to be up to you and your friends to decide how to play. If you feel guilty for taking advantage of your friend who six-boxes, that's kind of between you and him, isn't it?

EDIT: Worth mentioning that I don't want to play on the server where the six-boxer is the norm either. I just think the difference between truebox and a hypothetical starting "relaxed" truebox server, in terms of the portion of the server pop who actually box, is probably small.

Aradune queue was 5+ hrs

I think that standard rules should always be truebox. It makes sense since the ruleset is meant to entice people trying to relive the experience. Teek should stay truebox, 100%. Anyone suggesting otherwise is ignorant or intentionally trying to stir the pot.

I’m sure there are many that want to go get another laptop to play. I had three on Coirnav. I hated it. It feels so silly to have 3-4 computers running just so that I can box. It’s also messy and insulting to the money I’ve spent on organizing my desk ( I work from home sometimes).

I suspect that there’s a lot of others in that category. And still think it’d move the bar over some for Teek. Will it help the queue? Probably minimally. But plenty of people rolled on rizlona cause of the queue times.

I think relaxed truebox would be fine from the start. Even though I personally prefer to box truebox style its just what im used to.

Going to have to agree to disagree. Folks will always take the path of least resistance. It makes for crummy game play when everyone is independent. Relaxed truebox allows 3 accounts per PC. So now the guy who could 2 box before because he only has 2 computers can now box a full group on those two computers. Every time he gets annoyed at not being able to do something he is going to add another box until he can.

So yes, forcing others to be dependent on each other is what builds a healthy and enjoyable community. Does that mean they have to occasionally wait for others? Does it mean your ability to make friends and influence people matters? Yes to both. Considering Truebox was head and shoulders more popular than the boxing server was last time they were released at the same time it is obvious that much of the EQ community prefers the atmosphere of a truebox server more.

Yes, they are forced to be dependent on me, and I am forced to be dependent on them and that, my dear, is the friends we made along the way.

Why not another level locked with GoD start then but with some of the other options added

People have generally played for the nostalgia until about planes of power. There’s plenty good in the game beyond that but probably won’t start in a great place if or GoD!

If eq TLPs hang on I think we may see a TSS launch eventually as the last complete xpac likely to ever happen.

Hopefully not for a couple of years, I want my Teek fun first.

Mostly to maximize the amount of time people spend in different eras in a TLP, while changing how they experience those eras. Seeing what the EQ community does at level 20 to kite, charm, deathswarm (I think the perk that removes XP loss should be removed, but it might not matter as much at that level) or otherwise kill higher level group mobs for maximum gear for a few days would be interesting and different. Some classes at certain low levels are so terrible it probably wouldn't be that fun.

I get how it doesn't really solve any problems, but wouldn't it be *interesting* to see a Mischief clone go up against a Relaxed Truebox vanilla?

Most people that are a little miffed on here are simply miffed because based on what they've seen over the years, they aren't curious to see how a vanilla Fippy will do against a Mischief clone. They have a really firm belief that its gonna be some wild 80/20 or 90/10 split. I honestly still think Mischief 2.0 would beat up a Relaxed truebox vanilla, but it would be a much more interesting and close heavyweight bout to observe.

Amen on the path of least resistance.

Here's the small wrench thrown in : we should NOT assume everyone going solo or boxing a toon is willing and (especially) able to comfortably jump up to 6 boxing. Its very likely many would be thrilled just having a shammy for their sk, a warrior with their enchanter and cleric... a mage with their necro... etc...

I think you'd actually see a ton of 2 and 3 person crews tooling around, playing comfortably..

And by god, is it easy to find one other 3 boxers to make a 6 man group.. or a couple other 2 boxers to make a 6 man group... or two 2 boxers and a pair of solo guys to make a 6 man group.

Or a half dozen 3 man crews to take down hate minis or golems or sky mobs or chardok royalty or....

etc.

Don't discount what a relaxed truebox would actually do to *help* the community. It is much more difficult to fill a group when you are a single fella looking around for other folks across 4 continents to match up with to group. If you are boxing 2 or 3 and have a /friends list full of other people boxing 2-3 (and single folks too, of course).. it just makes it easier every time you log in to be in the action quicker. Its why guilds are so dang effective at keeping people playing.. A guild is a link to dozens of 1, 2, 3, and 6 boxers.... Its why people tagged up stay a lot longer.. It's easier to log in and throw a few tells around and be slaughtering frogs or goblins.

Relaxed truebox would likely have much of the same effect. Would it look the same as life was in 1999? No, Norrath wouldn't be the same look...Heck, it doesn't resemble classic much anyways where we stand right now.

I'm not even actually *for* the idea of relaxed truebox, but i'll openly admit it would work out 1000x better than people think it would for preserving the community. Heck my motive is just to have more balanced loads for the 2 servers just so i don't waste my paid time off sitting in a queue angry, like we do almost every launch (I'll admit Oakwynd went hella smooth, things actually been getting better!)

There isn't enough to do in Vanilla EQ. Kunark is the peak of early EQ, since you still do EVERYTHING in Vanilla in Kunark. Not to mention epic weapons are one of the most iconic experiences in classic MMO history.

It's not just "those zones still exist." Those zones are still an integral part of the game. Once Velious hits, the cycle of replacing all your gear every expansion and older content being mostly pointless begins.

P99 Blue was in Kunark for over 3 years and maintained it's population all along. Agnarr, on the other hand...

Progression servers have been going on for over 15 years, I'd say just about everyone has started in Vanilla at least once by now, we've been asking for a Kunark start for YEARS, surely to God you can give people just 1 years worth of TLP? You've had plenty, and there will be more.

Oh and the weird obsession with anniversary numbers make me LOL, in means nothing and companies basically never do anything truly special for it, but damn do players think they deserve everything they want because Norrath circled the sun another 365 days.

Of course it was. It's way easier to farm krono while boxing on a truebox server than it is to farm krono while boxing on a boxing friendly server. You can make a LOT of money off of nonboxers as a boxer.

The impression that people have that truebox makes such a huge difference on a server is incorrect, though it certainly does make a certain subset of players feel better about it. Until they realized that enchanter's "cleric friend" they invited to the group is being boxed (whether it's actually their friend's account or not) and then they come to the forums complaining about people boxing. Or their camp gets overrun/named stolen by someone obviously boxing. Oh, look, truebox was pointless after all. Well duh.

But that's just it, the complaining type never last long anyway. They were never going to be around long, some people are looking for this non-existent replica of the past (P99 is the closest you can get but no, it's not exactly the same, and it's not just the server; it's people, it's gamers, life, the world etc. in general) and get mad when they don't get invited to groups or have to seek for a while and blame it on boxing. My favorite boxer quote is when they say they "weren't going to play with you anyway" regardless of what the boxing rules are.

Truebox is a pointless fantasy and if any player or dev thinks it is creating a better space for the game, well, you are wrong and oblivious. If you want to play with only nonboxers, you won't be able to PUG and you'll have to find a raid guild that plays that way (they don't exist) except during very early expansions when the population supports it, and then later inevitably merge with another guild (who doesn't share your silly non-boxing rules) or start over on a new TLP.

Honestly disappointed in this set. interest in other servers has pretty much left and was hoping for more or at least something to excite me a little bit more.

But we don't have to theorize about how this plays out. We have seen it. On Ragefire, on Lockjaw and on Rizlona. The answer is, no, you do not see a lot of 2-3 boxers. It doesn't happen all at once, they tend to add boxes as they get the hang on the ones they are using. So they may start out at 2 or 3 on month 1, but by month 3 they have a full group.

Solo people jump into their guild chat and look for other people to group with and everyone else is off doing their own thing and doesn't have the time or space to go help. So then they grab a box, and another, and another, and another.