Oakwynd Feedback

We in each other's heads

Mischief loot changes = focused:
* WHEN: after a mob dies
* WHAT: changing how an algorithm picks what loot to drop from a list
The most complex thing is simply getting the right data into the loot tables so that it can be picked out properly. It's mostly a data issue.

AOC changes = Figuring out how to spin up extra processes (in containers or VMs) and shunting players too and fro. Also figuring out who qualifies for be included in those processes, by storing additional flags on the players at runtime and persisting them. (Also persisting the instances, but all that stuff existed in EQ BEFORE AOCs.)

MOTM changes = adding a debuff (special procedure) that is assigned to certain mobs; it runs periodically and puts an effect on players and their pets. This is kind of like adding a new spell to the game. It's old hat.

FTE changes = totally rethinking how aggro works, who can hit/buff what; this is core physics of the game -- what mobs "see", "react to"; who can kill those mobs; who gets credit; the timing and distribution of this state. It's just a different beast.

I admit I don't have the code in front of me; I'm using experience with MUDs and distributed systems, and common sense guide me. I just see FTE as a completely different, very core, beast. And it's going to play out in some ugly ways.

Although I get your point and agree with your general take then I do believe that loot is assigned to mobs when they spawn - and not when they die (rogues pick pocketing mob can lead them to being a bit lighter on the loot than expected when they are killed).

You're correct. I forgot that.

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Ima have to grab a cold adult beverage now Tucoh. You have indeed, made me sad. Sort of like having to make a choice between processed, convenience foods or spending a few hours in the kitchen creating something fabulous to eat; no, not every night, maybe just on weekends?
Everything in life is reduced these days. *Let me pop the cap on another cold one.
Current mood: avoidance or grief, not sure which.

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Non-raiders.

btw we found that mobs can lock to each other, for instance with certain buffs, leaving the player completely out

that means there’s pre-set invulnerable mobs, some with sow from shaman mobs, just waiting to agro you at random points in the game

i call this new feature ‘land mines’

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Some valid points being made against FTE. But what I do not understand is this idea that no one makes alt characters on the same account...? SO MANY DO THIS. I've no way to provide anything but anecdotal info, but maybe DP is looking to market one TLP to the various levels of "casuals?"

Psst...did you know there are players who have played since Day 1 of EQ, that have literally NEVER RAIDED, or tried it for one expansion and then went back to only grouping, duoing or running about with friends, and who definitely have 4, 5, 6 or more alts on ONE subbed account and they DON'T box, and they level various characters for various interests. For differing reasons: taking a couple to max in trade skills to then support their main; or maybe they like 4 or 5 of the trade skills and have characters who basically focus on those. Some enjoy slowly messing about exploring and completing quests for achievements. Just saying there are other playstyles and always have been in Everquest. And "casuals" or no, they also have been a part of the population who are playing on the TLPs. Its true. I swear! ;o)

So now every starting area will have the red con murder musician skeletons like in Everfrost Peaks?

As someone who wanted to wait and see how FTE would work before calling for it to be changed/removed: FTE in its current state on Test is 100% broken and should not be implemented to Oakwynd.

The way I see it you have 2 choices: delay the TLP launch (please no) or remove FTE. Maybe try to implement it later after all the problems have been solved.

leave fte the way it is, insert team pvp.
if you want glorious expectations, lets go!
if the only way we get pvp is to fight it out over a policy that should be tested on test server than so be it, let's go!

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So no one thinks any of the devs did ANY spitballing with what some of the consequences would be? None of the devs thought or came up with the idea that they would have to do A. if they changed up B? I understand that there are some exploits which may be too labor-intensive (*staff costs) to bother to work a plan on, but come-on these devs are in their jobs for a reason.

Absent a bit of the typical my-uncle-knows-your-aunt or my-dad-sails-on-your-cruise-ship throughout-"the season" that happens in hiring at all corps/companies -- devs on this team are just like any other gaming industry devs. They had to meet certain qualifications and get through 52 interviews to start earning that $72k a year salary ^-^. Though this is an og mmo, there is SOME KNOWLEDGE BASE amongst the devs working on this.

While we haven't yet seen many counters to reported bugs on the test server, surely some are planned. So it seems ridiculous that most of these posts are just focusing on the potential/or/certainty of said exploits, assuming the devs have no plans to counter those. It may well be that the c-suite is making decisions now which in old-school days they never got their hands dirty with, but I feel confident the devs working this have solid enough skills to have been picked to handle this new TLP.

Who knows how much AI might be becoming more useable in coding? Who knows which of the experimental changes on this TLP are what the dev team have been tasked to focus on, and not just or only a myriad of exploits? 12 and a wake-up til we get to launch. Hope a LOT of people end up having a LOT of fun. Thats why we're here right?

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LoL. Does anyone remember all the dire warnings, all the "care-bear" call outs, all that was said upon the first mention of FV? Yet for many years, it had a busy, very engaged population and was a blast!

The sky is not falling. DP is doing something/a little/too much/not enough changes in a new Tlp. It remains to be seen whether there are enough players like the ones I know who are definitely alt-o-holics, all on one account that will gravitate toward an alt-encouraged special server type. We will see. Hopefully a lot of others who love having alts, and who are interested in the majority of this ruleset will join Oakwynd and stay, and those who prefer other rulesets will find their happy place on another of the many servers available in Everquest.

You know, it just occurred to me that if a person just read the first few pages of this thread and didn't read any other threads like the test server patch they might still think people are just grumbling about changes. Boy will they be surprised.

Then I thought about the probably 90% that don't read these forums at all.

Oakwynd launch week is going to be an epic time that you'll tell your imaginary grandchildren about.

This is not to be missed at all costs.

/takes a drag on a cig

These are great days we're living, bros. We are jolly green giants, walking the Norrath with rusty longswords. These NPC's we wasted here today are the finest NPC's we will ever know. After we rotate back to the real world, we're gonna miss not having NPC's around that're worth auto-attacking.

I hate to burst your bubble, more than likely 3 interviews, and, 72k is entry level out of college with zero real experience salary for a software developer.... if that's what they have then it explains why they often trip over things that should not have been an issue, lack true QA, unit testing, etc.

For those who enjoy schadenfreude, this will be worth the price of entry.

FTE is garbage

What you all are confusing is the changes to the code, the core code vs changes that have a huge player impact. I 100% agree AoCs HUGELY impacted the early game of EQ on the TLPs.

But, from a code standpoint, it was relatively a minor change, since instancing was already a part of the core game by then. That is the point others are trying to make, FTE messes with the base game in many many ways that fundamentally change a core mechanic, aggro.

Make sense? No one is arguing the impact AoCs have, but the code change to support that was nothing like what they are attempting with FTE.

Code impact or not, it is still a large change to the core mechanics of the game which in early expansions limited players chances at raids to who could get to the open world target first. Core mechanics of the game don't just involve code changes.

It's not core mechanics though. It' a tangential feature. You're just not thinking of things from a coding perspective.

FTE impacts one of the most fundamental things at the core of the EQ code -- physical awareness and physical interactions. E.g. the physical awareness mobs have of players; their aggression & ability to target players; whether players can attack those mobs; and whether they can kill those mobs (and thus get loot). It's fundamental combat system stuff. VERY low level in a game like this, and in a game like EQ, I'd argue it's the MOST IMPORTANT aspect of this game, because this is a game about killing things, avoiding being killed, and getting loot.

In contrast, AOCs or Mitigation of the Mighty -- those are tangential things. You could completely remove them from the game, and YES -- the game may not be as fun (or more fun, depending on your perspective), but you can still play the game.

Compare that to the cluster on Test right now, where basic aspects of the game are broken. Where new exploits exist to grief other players. Corner case after corner case.

The worst part will be that the really valuable exploits -- the things people figure out how to do using this new system to exploit the game -- they won't get reported. They'll be enjoyed by the few that figure them out through the first few expansions or so, and be used for earning plat for krono. You can bet people are figuring out ways to leverage this system in unintended ways. Change like this brings chaos, and that chaos brings opportunity.