Mischief/Thornblade Random Loot

So I was bored last night while raiding so between events I decided to do some quick math. Let's say you have 54 main raiders in your guild and you raid Tacvi, MPG, and COA trials once a week (not on lockout, but a schedule like Monday + Tues). At the end of the combined 20 weeks, it's a mathematical impossibility to fully outfit a raid force of 54 players in that time period by doing just one instance a week of each.

Each player needs 20 items to fully gear themselves currently (would be 21 when charms become more commonplace). That means you need 1080 total items for a raid force of 54 players. After 20 weeks of the three above targets, you will have acquired a total of around 920-950 items(OMM doesn't always drop same amount). Considering how you literally will never get perfect rolls on item drops - an item someone needs every single time - because RNG, class makeup, some items dropping more often than others, some raid targets drop augs so that won't filled slots, etc. it's just impossible to claim that there would be no need to continue raiding Tacvi, Rikk, Kess during DON. At very best, with fantastic luck on loot, you maybe will outfit 75% of item slots within your entire raid force and that's being very, very generous.

So the fact that you claim you're done with loot in Tacvi and will have no need for anything in DON besides Yarlir/Vish is something I highly doubt. Your anecdote doesn't match math and data. You're either splitting the entire time to acquire more gear, leveraging raid alts within your main raids so you have less than 54 mains to outfit, lying to my face, or very mistaken.

I know you will in turn state "you don't need full gear" blah blah blah. That's not the point of the discussion. The point was you claimed there's not enough targets worthwhile, but mathematically, there are targets you're potentially not doing that are worthwhile because you will still need the loot. The loot distribution will also require even more gear the more raiders you have.

Nah, just realized that discussing this with a stubborn, my way or the highway person who argues just to argue is pointless. You can't come to terms that people play this game with different goals or playstyles that differ from yours. To top it off you don't even play on this server. You all up in the Kool-Aid and you don't even know the flavor my guy.

The current tiering is exactly how I like and want it, so if that's being on the wrong side of things then ok? The devs disagree with you but I'll do you a solid and take that L.

Did your math take into consideration that this is Mischief and mobs drop 2-4 times as much loot here as on other servers.

I told you flat out we have split the entire time. I have no idea why you accuse me of lying. Read my posts.

The server is as they said it would be. Random loot dropping from mobs of similar level.

It doesn't suck, I'm not just sitting there and taking it. I LOVE it, warts and all.

The fact that people are whining that occasionally Quarm drops garbage blows my mind. Who cares. It's 1 mob, you have literally 37 other mobs that can drop the loot you want. If you look at all the loot acquired over the course of the average raid on Mischief it is far and away better than on any other server to date. They are giving us tons of loot and people are whining because Quarm was a little disappointing?

Not knowing what is going to drop is amazing. Good stuff dropping from meh mobs is amazing. Meh loot dropping from hard mobs is amazing. It makes highs and lows throughout a raid and gives the guild something to laugh, cry, celebrate and curse about. It makes this same old stuff feel like a new adventure rather than another job.

I won't play on any server that lacks randomization again. It just brings way too much to the table. Helps that I plan on sticking with Mischief for the long haul.

There are some fatal flaws in your assumptions.

Each target has a chance to drop more loot than usual. It's common to see double loot and we have even seen three and even four times loot drop. It is crazy at time how much loot drops sometimes. So your 920 items would really be at least 2000 items and likely a lot more.

Plus, you do not factor in the random loot aspect; you can get that loot from multiple targets. On Thornblade, we were getting Time gear from lesser targets, so ever raider in the guild had 1-2 time pieces before we ever stepped foot in there (my box cleric even has a polished smooth metal torque, and he is not anywhere near flagged for Time.)

And I don't even take into consideration splitting the raids and passing gear down, so as someone gets an Anguish drop, they could pass down their Tacvi item which increases the amount of gear, and lessens the demand because one piece of gear can do double or triple duty.

I agree. This is the most fun that I have had on a server in a long time.

Fortune and glory kid. Fortune and glory!

Similar level wasn't really defined and it has waffled between tiers of difficulty and just mob level.

Especially if a guild can't even get to Quarm to begin with. You are correct that there is more loot than ever. Soon it will be more lucrative as far as gearing the guild goes to 24 man Grummus in multiple DZs than do the end game content.

Especially if a guild isn't willing to put in enough effort to see the harder stuff. Participation trophies for all.

I hope you aren't just saying this and really mean it.

Similar level wasn't defined, and as it was the first time they have done this I fully expected that it would be rocky as they figured out what they want to do. I do love what they did in PoP though, and I think they should carry it forward.

Oh, please. A guild can't get to Quarm? Every raid guild that puts in a tiny bit of effort will 100% get to Quarm. Ever since the inclusion of AoCs 95% of raid guilds on any given server have gotten to Quarm in era, and the other 5% only didn't because they were far more "family" than "raid". AoC's have long since shattered the idea that any of this content is hard or that guilds will struggle with it.

24 manning Grummus is not, and will never be, the best way to get BiS loot.
1. Splitting a 72 man raid into 3 - 24 man raids gets you 3 kills of a mob that only drops tier 2 loot.
2. Taking a full 72 man raid to PoT gets you 11 kills that drop Tier 1-3 loot. That's not even counting Phase 1-2 of Time and the loot that will drop there.

I am just not seeing how your "24 manning Grummus is the best way to gear up" math is working, but we do know your fondness for hyperbole. Maybe you could break it down for me?

There is no "harder stuff" for an actual raid guild. None of it is "hard". Sure, family guilds who can't field a decent sized raid will have to stick to the low level stuff to gear up, and no I don't begrudge them their Time loot from lower mobs, because I know that they work hard for it. They also have far fewer chances at loot than a true raid guild. That is the reason to do the "harder" stuff, to have more kills in a concentrated area. More kills=more rolls of the dice=better loot. That alone is enough incentive for smart guilds to push to Time.

Everything in your post is wrong

Grummus has been duo'd already in era on Mischief. Monk/Shaman.

That 72 man raid should be be 12 or 18 splitting Grummus not, 3 splitting.

No 72 man raid should be doing any 1 groupable mob as a raid target. Which still makes the most effective use of a raid night Plane of Time.

Nothing would make me quit a guild faster than the raid leadership micro-managing the raiding of groupable mobs. Let people do the easy stuff on their own, on off-nights.

Getting a Symbol of the Planemaster and a Time's Antithesis off of the 7th hammer with a small group of my guildies on an offnight funsy raid makes this server the best server ever.

Sir you seem to be confused; there's no way you are having fun on this server. The people, who don't even play on this server, have made it very clear that there's no way this is fun.

Risk vs Reward is one of the few things EQ has going for it. Getting BiS gear from extremely easy mobs ruins that, honestly. I know Kahna will disagree, as he's been trolling and spamming anyone with an opposing view, but I don't play this game solely to collect the best pixels by any means necessary. That isn't fun, just as buying krono to trade for pixels wouldn't be fun. It bypasses the actual game where you feel like you've earned the loot. It cheapens the experience, and I predict that four months of this will see a larger percentage of players losing interest in the server.

She, not he, and disagreeing isn't trolling. It sounds like this isn't the kind of server that you would find enjoyable, but that doesn't mean others don't. Plenty of folks are loving it, and people were going to abandon the server because they were getting too much loot too easily they would have done that in Kunark, or Velious, or Luclin. People will quit in PoP because people always quit in PoP but not because they are getting "too much loot too easily".

I also don't play this game solely to collect the best pixels, if I did I wouldn't be in a guild that doesn't split DZs and only raids officially twice a week. I have also never purchased gear with Krono, I love free trade because I can hand down loot to alts. I still feel like I earned my loot, and do not feel the experience has been cheapened at all. I do wonder what is going to happen in the next 4 months that hasn't been happening since the server went live that would get people to quit.

The same thing that always happens around this stage of the game.

1. The next TLP will be released.
2. People will burn out on PoP. Fortunately LDoN is only one month this time. So there might be less burnout. A better option would be to release LDoN with PoP. Could still be 4 months, but would be more stuff to do and people who don't raid could be doing their LDoNs.

Risk vs reward goes right out the window on free trade servers. Having loot drop from random mobs is really minor compared to free trade.

I just think this server isn't for you. Free trade servers are casual servers. Where else can you farm plat to trade for raid gear?

I'm sure the next servers won't be free trade so you can happily jump on those and feel like your special again for raiding stuff beaten 20 years ago. (And this game is far more then collect the shiniest pixels. IF that is all you get out of it.. I kinda feel bad for ya.)

As for the server tanking? Well go compare FV to any other live server and come back after you've thought about that for a bit.