Charm is too strong

I've actually stated my general proposal fix twice now. You probably just missed it within the constant "preserve the status quo OP'ness I want to use!!" rebuttals that seemingly want to focus more twisting the specifics of the issue involved into a "nobody is actually saying any of that" strawman they they can then beat on.

Mark buff on any player charmed pet spell up to level 60, and that consists of a % slow and threat build reduction that falls off on a break. Which basically still leaves all the classes with charm the ability to do almost all of the same things they are now, just with the efficiency of the process tuned down to a less absurdly unbalanced vs traditional group play level.

What a great way to think, why even bother to try to balance anything ever?
Heck just put back in all the unbalanced stuff and let's play that game.

Charm is just a cheese mechanic until (x) expansion. Unfortunately the argument is that after (x) expansion it's OK but a majority of the TLP pop never gets that far to ever care.

Great but we all know a majority of folks aren't playing until then and that's why people are saying Charm is too strong because well it is unless you are trying to preserve that cheese mechanic then it's OK.

Players want a game in X era that had X over powered mechanics, but now want them to match the mechanics from eras they don’t want to play.

If players wanted a challenge they would stop rerunning they same content every year.

So in effect remove charm from the game pre-60.

I didn't see anything about removal. So you can't outdps entire groups anymore? Is that a terrible thing?

My chanter buddy quit back in OoW when the charm nerf was put in that made a charmed mob at that level and above do about 1/3 the DPS it would if it wasn’t charmed. What you are asking for in regards to making charm slow the mob, block haste, block recharm, increase MR, or any of he other rational suggestions that were put forward would very likely make nearly everybody who was having fun with charm suddenly say ‘why bother?’ and take their ball and go home.

I dont think the raid content is what bothers people and you know this.
It's a single player dominating a zone with a completely overpowered charm pet.

Fun with charm? They're doing it for krono.

No one is coming back due to overpowered mechanics if they wanted that they'd play on a solo server and one shot everything.

Players keep returning to TLP to enjoy the content with friends.
The content of killing (x) 1st or being the best is long gone thanks to the AOC.

I don't want to play beyond (x) expansion because I played on FV until like level 75ish and the game becomes something else with 101 hotkeys, 5000+ aa's and skills and little focus on what to do.

Keep trying to keep in OP items I enjoy them but I'm not going to say they don't need a balancing or adjustment.

Oh no a 25% - 50% slow on a charmed pet that still does more than 1 to 3 group members. Ya I wouldn't use that.

Every mage said they'd quit due to Motm, yet the next tlp, massive mages because they still have power in 99% of the group game.

Like what zone. The 32 picks if Guk with way others classes than ench? Or the 20 picks of the hole? What zone is a single charm pet running?

You guys are all so cynical. Not everybody in this game is a kronolord buying Taco Bell, which was another ad hominem attempted insult someone aimed at me in another thread.

Do you know how slow works in EQ? He is basically asking for a 70% damage reduction. That would effectively make charm never worth using.

Also if your entire group is getting out dpse by a charm pet, your group is 4 rogues in Classic or you're all terrible at the game. Even in the handful of zones charm pets are top DPS they're only slightly ahead of players. Removing charm isn't gonna make you not suck at the game.

Why can’t see we some parses of 1 ench pet vs 6 DPS classes or vs 24 as claimed earlier at royals. Let’s see some data if it’s not hyperbole.

Three rangers can outdps a FULL GROUP of six clerics AND they can heal each other. By the standards of the folks who want charm nerfed in this thread, Something Should Be Done About That.

By your own standards it's a lose/lose regardless what they do. Since it works both ways. That vocal minority that wants to claim there isn't a balance issue with the charm power they want to exploit will be just as prone to the after whining and sense of entitlement.

On a separate note though and since you brought it up. The most vocal people against a re-balance that will be rolling chanter/cleric on a server like Aradune are likely to be among the last people Daybreak will ever find forking them over any direct money

Whether they give money directly to DPG or not they still create revenue by consuming Kronos.

It's Everquest. The stuff is going to get consistently farmed regardless if it's a 2 man enchanter/healer or a setup that requires more characters grabbing the camp to do it.

My point there was a more a counter to the latest "nobody actually was saying that here" claim being shoved on to people proposing a re-balance.

The knock on effect of a major nerf to charm would be to even further marginalize rogues etc.. With chanters limited to crowd control then the need for a "perfect group" would become even greater with the last three slots of the group after "trinity" being whatever classes are deemed to be the best DPS.

Maybe then there'd be calls to nerf the DPS of the top DPS classes or nerf the tanking ability of whatever tank came out on top. Heck maybe there'd be real calls to nerf clerics ....I doubt it though

Enchanters charming opens up the game for less than ideal group setups

Yet that "only" is pretty big one, and one that still soaks up a large % of the damage being dealt out as a whole. Not to mention that "garbage tanking" is also a foundation piece that allows your duo to be able to kill things you otherwise couldn't, and a defining reason I'm guessing somebody such as yourself sure as heck isn't going to ever view playing tank/cleric as a viable replacement choice.

That said, from that same keeping things to a purely situational example perspective I don't disagree with a lot of what you said. I just disagree with your guy's apparent philosophy that the mechanic isn't overpowered based strictly on those things that might randomly factor a mynute % of the time, as if that somehow adequately balances out the massive amount of upside gain outside such "problem instances".

My proposed change doesn't even extend to your POP example btw. Which is about the time any real legitimate risk vs reward threat in an exp group starts popping up, and when potentially not having a tank to do some of those things pets can't starts being a bigger potential detriment. Again, my own focus is more aimed at the earlier expansions and how charmed pet unbalance ends up universally effecting the leveling/grouping/farming game (from a what actually ends up happening standpoint) being played out in them.

This thread seems distracted with the wrong topic. Anyone who argues that charm isn't bonkers amazing from classic to pop has their head in the sand or is lying. The relevant and interesting question is what only a few people have touched on in here, are TLPs better off with the nostalgia power scale or should they be tweaking things; whether that's a helping hand for rogues or a reduction in charm pet output.