EQ PVP Big Discussion Thread

Literally everything you are saying would have applied to someone returning from Classic Everquest, coming to a TLP for the first time.

By your logic, DBG never should have made TLP's to begin with.

Big yikes, but at least you admit it unlike most of the anti-pvp bois.

DBG had a PVE population playing on the live servers interested in the TLP idea. So when they tried it they had people already playing to work with. If people returning to the game from 10-15 years ago didn't like it, they still had folks.

DBG has basically no PVP population playing on the live servers right now in advance of launching a PVP TLP. Based on forum comments it sounds like most people quit 15 years ago.

The spell and class changes have less of an impact on strictly PVE servers than PVP.

That was a nice comparison but nope.

Admittimg you have a problem is a big step.

Maybe you guys should admit you have a problem with doing more than just forum whining for years on end.

That tends to happen when you merge all 4 active PvP servers into a new server, that does not have similar rules to any of the original four. Forcing the players to leave for private servers or quit.

It's like merging Mangler, Coirnav, Agnarr, Phini ... into Miragul.

I don't think anyone would really mind if two servers were launched, one PVE and the other PvP. This would be the best solution.

If it's a choice of only being one type of server launch then it's clearly the larger group who would play that would not want PvP enabled.

I hope it's two servers but if it's not, then make your push to have Devs create and enable a PvP zone, after a few months of work, with frequent automatic PvP events to show the proof of concept for sustainable PvP.

I agree now, that playing on Zek isn't a real show because it's non sub. That had not even crossed my mind until someone recently brought it up here.

That's a fantastic story. Thank you for sharing.

And it literally changes...nothing about the current reality.

Unless you want to start whining about something that happened 15 years ago too?

The last MMO I played was EverQuest on a PvP server about 15 years ago. After hearing about this effort I decided to try Zek and I just couldn't stomach it. The sad state of Zek is absolutely driving off players who want a pvp server today while classic PvP servers were drawing in new players.

It's not the early 00's anymore but there's plenty of old players who'd like to go through that classic content again with PvP. I cannot understand why anyone would be against us having the chance to do this.

Stop whining. The adults are trying to have a conversation here. Go take your toxicity back to your blue servers.

Back to the discussion at hand, Team based PvP is the way to go. It allows us to police our own and keep the other team in check. Respect will go a long way on this server. But if a griefer turns out we can deal with it until they either buy a race change or buy a name change to avoid being perma-banned by the guilds that form up. I'm sure the blues will make some super troll guild on the server to spread their toxicity. So be on the look out for that.

-"I'm with my BOIS!"

Thank you for your support,

I respectfully disagree though that PvE is automatically more $$$ than PvP, just because of numbers. I think you need to keep in mind that many players who would play a fresh PVE TLP are still subscribed and playing the game. They're just on another TLP. It's not really generating new revenue (other than the initial surge of people buying stuff to level).

Where as a new PvP TLP is going to bring customers to the game who haven't played in years, or who have been exclusively on private servers.

Also, I'm inclined to believe that PvP players will spend more money per person than PvE players. There is more at stake, and everyone will want to have every advantage.

In short, a PvP server expands the market to an audience that is going to spend more cash.

What about Zek didn't you like?

Are you aware of all the game and class/spell changes since you last played? That make the game much different than 2005?

Toxicity? Have you been following how your "community" talks to anyone who doesn't fall in line and 100% agree with them on these forums?

Cause that's some kettle/pot treasure right there.

I haven't seen anyone who is pro-PvP be overly toxic.

It is hard to be polite and happy all the time in these engagements though, when you have people who are openly cheering for you to NOT have a server to play on, even though it doesn't impact them.

Tsuaruanni, I invite you to come join me in discord, and we can have a civil conversation about the pros and cons of a PvP TLP. I think we could have a productive discussion.

https://discord.gg/rW5w5a

I'll be in voice for the next few hours, if anyone else who is anti-pvp, would like to come and have a civil discourse. All are welcome.

This is a terrible comparison since the zeks were all at the same expansion while the TLP you mentioned are at different stages of the game the differences between PvP rules are far less different than servers being in completely different expansions & the players being vastly different in levels, at least on the Zeks the players were in fact equivalent populations in levels, gear & AA AND in fact the Rules of the closed servers could have been implemented by the players themselves with some discipline & community effort, I mean PvP players always say theirs was a stronger better community but yet here was a prime opportunity to prove it that they completely failed at, nobody forced the PVP players to quit, they CHOSE to QUIT, either in protest at their server being merged or from a lack of willingness to adapt to the new circumstances.

I should add again, I'm not against a PvP TLP if there is a sufficient demand, what I dispute is the claims of there being a significant population of players to make one feasible, I remain unconvinced because of that lack of proof, a handful of forum users splatterposting doesn't equate to proof of a decent sized PvP demographic in any way shape or form.

Disagree.

The PvP servers had wildly different rules, that made them like playing different games.

For example, Rallos Zek - you could only PvP against people within a few levels of yourself, but you could loot items off of players you killed.

TZ/VZ had teams, but they were soft coded.

Sullon Zek had no level restrictions on their PvP.

The entire game changed for these players.

So let's say I hypothetically agree with you for a second about the old rulesets being a bigger difference than multiple entire years worth of expansions gear & AA:

Referring back to your video you claim the ruleset doesn't matter to start with yet here you are directly contradicting yourself because clearly rulesets DO matter, so much so in fact that players left the game over them.

So your contention that an EQ PvP TLP is viable is on incredibly shaky ground to start with & hasn't even thought beyond getting a server up & running, the ruleset is still a "we will get to that" - this is completely laughable given the immense importance that the ruleset actually has & which you JUST outlined.

Your argument is dead until your "movement" can address that elephant in the room.

So what type of "proof" is it you're looking for.

I've already mentioned the high population on red99 until it got stale, 800 peak,(same age as Fippy and look at Fippy) & the fact that RoZ2 which enforces a 2 boxing limit currently has more players then the newest TLP Miragul and quite a few others. All that doesn't matter though because people aren't paying, but there is no classic pvp server here for them to even have the option to pay and play..

Currently you're just saying you don't think there is enough to warrant a server with no actual proof to make that case. Until they make a PVP TLP or even an event server no one will ever truly know..

I'm so curious why you are so against them even trying. Are you this upset about them trying Miragul and it being DOA?

Perhaps I wasn't entirely clear in my video, it was an off-the-cuff rant, afterall.

I was trying to say that the ruleset we get for the PvP TLP does not particularly matter to us, right now. Obviously, it matters - and we want it to be as close to the spirit of the original 4 PvP servers as possible/practical, but the important battle is trying to secure a home server for us.

I go on to say in the video that we can discuss and argue the ruleset of a proposed server, after we have one confirmed.

We have internally discussed the ruleset of a proposed server, as well as have had discussions (and a long format interview with the developer of Project 1999, where we discuss rulesets, and problems with Red 99, you can read here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350747

but my point is that we don't want to distract people with debating petty differences (Should there be two teams, or three!!? Hardcode vs. Softcode!?) when the clear objective is to get a PvP server.

If you are interested in my personal proposed ruleset (keep in mind that this is me personally, and does not represent the entirety of the movement), you can read that here:
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3004775#post3004775

I am repeating myself here but:

1. Gather on Agnarr
2. Form 2-3 guilds relatively balanced-for-classes & levels
3. Go red

Additionally you could also:

4. PvP for an indeterminate amount of time while updating a thread, this one will do even, on how things are going.
5. Stream some PvP action on Twitch & link to it in this thread, showing how much fun you are all having on Agnarr with your HUGE community of PvP players.

Your community can self-organise right?

Nobody here should give 2 coprolites about some poxy emulated server population & save the Forum PvP for someone who enjoys that kind of stuff, your pathetic attempts to bait barely amuse me, I don't have to prove your PvP numbers don't exist when it doesn't, the ONUS is on your community to prove it does exist & to prove me & the other naysayers wrong, so far you haven't, not even remotely.

Why do I care? That question is so completely stupid but I will answer it anyway.

Money.

Any money DPG spend on giving you a server that I believe will fail could be better spent elsewhere on the game that players who actually exist & actually have subscriptions are paying for.

We are playing on private classic servers.

We had a 3v3 tournament last night, in which Dark Men of Odus (An all Erudite guild) took 1st place.

As for how much "fun" we have, I guarantee a PvP server is more fun than whatever server you are on.