Re-tuned HAs

Re-tuned HA's graphs and data and stuff:

Overview:

Took my 110 Warrior (max aa, 20/25 Hero Reso, EOK raid non-vis with RoS group tradeskilled visibles... its an alt, but a semi-cared for alt) into Overthere, Gribble 3 (Disrupting the Ritual), and Demiplane of Decay HA Fate Rewards the Bold. Plopped in front of a mob in each zone with a healer merc on balanced, buffed with mercenary Assurance and the Golden Rhino mount buff. Sword and board, no Wurmslayer. No Warrior AC buffs (Field Champion and Resolute defense were not on - but I was running Champion's Aura for all 3 tests).

Warrior stats:



It's an alt; don't judge me you filthy elitists .

Larger data sets are always good, but these were ~25+ mins each, I feel like that's a decent-ish sample size.

An interesting thing to note, which will become apparent in a moment; the NPCs in CoTF and TBM seem to have a higher regen rate than the NPCs in Overthere, or at least the one I was parsing against. They also had more hitpoints. The tiger I was fighting actually ended up killing itself on riposte, while the TBM/COTF mobs were still above 50% hp.

It needs to be noted here (and I'll note it below as well) that the data for the COTF fight is skewed because I had Cleric Vie on at the beginning of the fight. I also accidentally clicked PDH at the very end, and ate maybe 10 hits in total with that absorbtion running. It shouldn't skew the results that much but the results should be invalidated. I've posted them anyway for the sake of being complete.

The data:

Sabertooth Tiger Thing (Overthere):

A sabertooth cat in 1605s, 7536k @4695sdps --- #1 Gotwarx 7536k@4695sdps (4695dps in 1605s) AVG HIT: 8164 || NPC DPS: 12323

REAL NPC HP: Not available. NPC died to riposte during testing.

Tanking summary for: Gotwarx --- Total Melee --- Damage: 17465102 --- Avg hit: 8861 --- Attempts: 3046 --- Riposted: 116/3046 [3.81%] --- Parried: 184/2930 [6.28%] --- Dodged: 177/2746 [6.45%] --- Blocked: 124/2569 [4.83%] --- Defended: 601/3046 [19.73%] --- Missed: 474/2445 [19.39%] --- Hits: 1971/3046 [64.71%] --- Real Hits: 1971/3046 [64.71%]

Relevant additional breakdown, direct damage:

Tanking summary for: Gotwarx --- DirDmg --- Damage: 2079000 --- Avg hit: 63000 --- Attempts: 33 --- Hits: 33/33 [100%] --- Real Hits: 33/33 [100%]

A Failed Attempt (DH HA): - RESULTS ARE INACCURATE BUT POSTED ANYWAY

A failed attempt in 1614s, 6503k @4029sdps --- #1 Gotwarx 6503k@4029sdps (4029dps in 1614s)
AVG HIT: 8159 (slightly skewed by Cleric Vie) || NPC DPS: 8876 (same note as avg hit)

Tanking summary for: Gotwarx --- Total Melee --- Damage: 14326350 --- Avg hit: 7950 --- Attempts: 2616 --- Riposted: 85/2616 [3.25%] --- Parried: 105/2531 [4.15%] --- Dodged: 119/2426 [4.91%] --- Blocked: 72/2307 [3.12%] --- Defended: 381/2616 [14.56%] --- Missed: 432/2235 [19.33%] --- Hits: 1803/2616 [68.92%] --- Absorbed: 1/1803 [0.06%] --- Real Hits: 1802/2616 [68.88%]

REAL NPC HP: A failed attempt in 58s, 9369k

Super Official Dude (TBM HA)

An elected official in 2405s, 9941k @4134sdps --- #1 Gotwarx 9935k@4131sdps (4167dps in 2384s) AVG HIT:8279 || NPC DPS: 11729

REAL NPC HP: An elected official in 52s, 10951k

Tanking summary for: Gotwarx --- Total Melee --- Damage: 27973993 --- Avg hit: 9570 --- Attempts: 3966 --- Riposted: 102/3966 [2.57%] --- Parried: 113/3864 [2.92%] --- Dodged: 128/3751 [3.41%] --- Blocked: 96/3623 [2.65%] --- Defended: 439/3966 [11.07%] --- Missed: 604/3527 [17.13%] --- Hits: 2923/3966 [73.7%] --- Real Hits: 2923/3966 [73.7%]

DI Graphs:

Note, again, the COTF graph is all kinds of borked due to Cleric Vie. Remove the instances with only a few hits and you'll get the real DI for this npc.



Conclusions

Looking over this again, the COTF test is completely screwed, and I don't want to do it again because I'm lazy. It's likely it would fall very closely in line with the TBM test.

Average incoming DPS from the OT mob is higher but I think that's due to the incoming direct damage from the ability it uses. I think in a raw comparison without spells the OT mob would be very close, or even slightly behind, the TBM mob in incoming DPS. The combined "miss" rate of the OT mob was actually higher than the miss rates for the other two, as well as the max DI, leading me to believe they'd do a bit more damage than the tiger. That being said, the OT mob reached its DI20 a lot more often than the other two did (111 times vs 17 for the TBM mob), so who knows.

They also have more HP and regen than the OT mobs do, or at least the tiger I sat in front of. I killed a chicken and got the same amount of HP, leading me to believe the animals in OT have crappy regen. Or the HA mobs in COTF/TBM have great regen. It's one of the two.

tl;dr - TBM/COTF mobs looked to be about on par with RoS T1 mobs in terms of damage output, and have slightly more HP/regen than mobs in Overthere. Doing older HA's is about on par with doing RoS T1.

I think they just need to revert the changes as mentioned they changed a major tenet of EQ that older content becomes easier especially since it offers no rewards on par with current content.

Working as intended :|

These HA changes are a big blow to casuals and completely change how EQ has worked for years.

I hope the devs look at their internal data for player activity: player playtime, number of HAs attempted or completed before/after patch.

I used to do one HA a night with a friend regularly (5-7 nights a week) but now we have only completed 2 HAs in the past week. I suspect my altered play habits is not an isolated incident.

If the Devs really wanted to kill these missions to force people to hunt in RoS - or even to purchase RoS - a better method for HA's is to make them not scale past the original level of the mission. It's obvious that the intent is there, this content should be dead by design.

Use it for it's original intent of people level 75-100 (or 105 depending on the setting) can use the missions to hunt in. Don't make it all scale to 110. It really is better for the game these missions are gone, it's for everyone's own good. The only thing holding back casuals is their own stubbornness to learn new content. I'm sorry. It's the truth. So many people are holding themselves back by repeating these missions each and every time they log in. You're stunting your growth as a player. You're missing much better content. You're not getting your $15/mon worth out of your investment in EQ.

I'm pretty certain I haven't done a cotf mission since 2014 that wasn't helping a guild mate unlock Hero's AA ranks or a Hero's Calling. I also have not used a daily quest for experience on my main since...RoF? I'm pretty certain. I had just come back from a year long break. I'm still 110 and max AA'd and have been for years. It can be done. I'm not that special of an EQ player, I don't even play every day. I never have. I'm just efficient with my time. Make your time in EQ actually fun, move on and hunt some place else. Again, you're doing yourself a favor here.

There's something very strange about all of this. There has been much said here and complained about since the recent patch. Understandable, I think, because EQ is a game of achievement, and the ability to achieve has been impacted by the recent changes. A lot of game time and achievement has been nullified, in effect, by the new difficulty added to content people used to have under control-it was playable-but now not so much. The biggest point of the advancement in the game, after all, was to be able to advance and prevail against older content. For some people that will no longer be practical.
Nobody likes a reduced game experience, and besides, greater difficulty is always available in raid encounters and in high level zones. Making older content borderline unplayable is not a positive for most players.
But what is puzzling is, what possible value comes from dealing a blow to a group of paying customers? Does the old saying "The Customer is always right.", no longer apply?
I think it does still apply, and the upshot of ignoring it will not be good for the future of this game.

CotF (Total 32 HA)
TDS (Total 6 HA)
TBM (All merc/partisan which is an instance zone are all Heroic + the 15 missions are all Heroic too)
EoK (zero)

I personally think that HA and Heroic Mission should only scaled to the max level base on the expansion it was released.
CotF max level 100
TDS, TBM, EoK max level 105
XP wise should be scaled to the lowest member is the group, to discorage higher level take advantage of easy XP.

I feel it is an issue to have HA/HM autoscale to the current max player's level.
Taking TBM as an example,
2 Years ago, casual palyers ware not able to win the Heroic Mission.
With auto scaling to current max's level, its even harder now.
Also not forgetting that all Missions are tied to achievements.

Does it even make any sense that current player at max level cannot even complete an older expansion mission years ago?
What about all those outstanding achievements from the past yet to be done?
How do you suggest we get all these past achievements achieved?

Also i would like to mention that all the HA in CoTF give crappy xp when completed(about 2-3aa) except for the 3 very special DH HA.

If all these changes are link to the 3 DH HA why cant they be made the same as the rest of the CotF HA.
or
You can simply leave them where it was before the changes on 17th Jan 2018.
Its not like it give a lots of XP to the current max 110 level players.
If I remember correctly it only give about 1% main xp at 110 per HA from Gribble.
(you still need to do 33.333 times of the 3 DH HA every 6 hours to get full xp at level 110)

I have seem players and friends only able to log in for that 1 to 2 hours per weekday and their only option is to do the DH HA and try to catch up.
It not as if majority of the players are stuck and live in a Virtual Reality EQ.


I think all the issue will be gone if you can just scaled them to their individual expansion level instead of current max level.

Why is it better to have less content available for people to do?

And what is it to you, personally, how people are getting their $15/month worth of investment? If I want to take my lvl 110 raid geared character to Crushbone, sit on the bridge there and contemplate the meaning of life, it's my 15 dollars, isn't it?

^This. What has been gained by making HA's harder? The XP isn't better, the rewards have not been scaled up, new subscribers are not signing up because of this change and some former gold subscribers are considering canceling their subscriptions. Does it "ruin the game"? No, not for me, because I find the HA's pretty boring. But I have plenty of more casual friends that do like HAs and I want them to still be able to have fun.

Get rid of all the HA from previous expansions after you autogrant all the achievements so people dont have to go do any of them.
Step 2 for those that have limited time, gear, lvl scale HA in current expansion THE OTHER way, so people can catch up their lvls, aa etc
Need any more suggestions? just keep reading the threads, I find it harder and harder to log on cause the things I wanted to do now that my characters are a little stronger, is go back and clean up expansions that were either too hard back then, or I simply did not get to finish.
Now I find myself in the same 1 or 2 zones grinding for 1 round of spawns and saying F it, ill check forums maybe they will come up with a solution.

People derive enjoyment and worth out of their monthly EQ subscriptions in myriad ways. To me, it seems sanctimonious for anyone to determine which way is the most optimal, efficient, or correct way. I want to go on, but at the risk of getting a forum vacation, I'll just leave it at that.

Regarding the scaling changes, this raider agrees that they're over the top. Any readjustment, other than a 100% patch reversal (which almost certainly won't happen) or simply doing nothing (which is entirely possible), will undoubtedly require code changes. So sorry Gribble and friends, you'll be very lonely on live servers for at least another three weeks. In the meantime, outside of raids, I'll stick to curbstomping static content for my group-geared alts and watching the test patch notes like a hawk.

You canceled accounts cause they made eq play the real way not easy cheasy way lol

As it stands, progression the way you did it daranged was the easy cheesy way. Now cotf-tbm > ros t1. I cancelled all of mine out of principle.

Do not need raid gear to accomplish what yinla said DH HA`s arent the only thing in Eq to get exp

Your opinion, and you are welcome to it. Its my 39 bucks a month and I will play the game how I feel like playing it. If they take that away then I will find something else to do with the money.

All this bickering about these HA`s wow you people wouldve quit years ago if played eq specially when there was no dumb mercs ,i literraly ignored people that would spam and spam all day bout wanting to do dh`s there old and played out move on oh yea like just go perm farm the Bi`faak camp in Fronteir mountains it is called "EVER QUEST" there are many other things to do in game for exp my god im so tired of hearing dh ha DB just take them out PLZ

I did quit back in 2004 or so, because GoD basically drove my guild to WoW. Came back several years ago after a 7 year layoff. I don't understand why it pisses so many people off that others aren't playing the game their way.

It's every HA. All of them. Hero AAs/hunter/partisan/collections all tied up in this debacle. Just curious why you're whining about people whining daranged? Personally I'd appreciate people subscribing to the game I've played since 2001 so it keeps going, this does the opposite.

Actually, it's not so much about Gribbles but more about progression missions/HAs. No one really knows why DB did this, Gribbles HAs seem to be the most popular guess. Since DB has yet to let anyone in on the joke that's all we get to do, guess.