Has anyone else "read" the entire thread by just "skipping" all of Zhaunil's impossibly formatted "posts?"
Really if they planed this all out then why a year later they still don't have spell names, item graphics, AA's, or other basic details worked out? Are you saying there just that stupid and incompetent? Well you might be right there Lol.
Maybe add a Back flagging raid you have to do 3 or 4 times to get items for the flag in new expansion, add some cool achievement reward for having done the EOK Raids. I don't know just spitballing here. I do agree it's not right to say now that you have to beat all of Eok to raid this one, and they didn't say it yet we are just finding it out on our own. I'm seeing this from lower guilds point of view I am fully flagged, but not everyone can be in a hi raiding guild.
New New If RoS tier 1 is considered to be a sort of "EoK tier 4", then they could "smooth" the transition a little by having some of the 106-110 rk3 spells drop from EoK tier 3 targets. This will give us casuals something new to spend our dkp on, and give us a little headstart when we finally enter RoS-raids. It will also help motivation a little bit, if we are forced to gear-up recruits in EoK-visibles.I don't see a reason to drop Rk3 spells in old Eok you can buy Rk1 spell or get Rk2 spell drops there not that much upgrade to do this.
So why did they auto flag people through the old expansion? Should they make everyone go get lower flags for new stuff?
That's not the conclusion I was making. Someone asked how it impacted the higher tiered guilds by having a low bar removed. That's how. You can't lower a floor and not expect everything that's built upon it to be lowered as well. Maybe this expansion will kill mid-tier guilds. Maybe they'll merge. Maybe some new guilds will form out of this. EoK T3 gear is still useful, no? Ah, but now that there is RoS gear, the EoK gear is so last year. The RoS gear being locked behind EoK gear makes EoK gear still a viable upgrade. And from the looks of it, the RoS group gear is less than the EoK raid gear, which is to be expected with new raid gear. I'd rather have one less person, to be honest. Someone who is at 30% of their capacity is someone who is going to make mistakes. They're going to miss emotes, miss positioning, miss assists, miss heals, miss tanking assignments, etc. Every raid from Queen onward has mechanics in place that require a raider to do something or suffer the consequences, and a lot of those consequences are detrimental to others. Someone missing an emote and killing 10 people around them hurts. Someone not being there to put out 30% of their potential isn't much to pick up for those 10 people. Also, is 30% really mid-tier? What is low tier? 10%? It isn't a linear progression from 0%, since anyone with autoattack is going to hit 30%. I don't want to work harder in the game either. I've recently realized something - I get more joy out of the game the less I play it. I want to run through raids as quickly as possible, progression as quickly as possible, levels as quickly as possible. I want to play less, and I enjoy it. Strange. However, what catches my eye is your "same amount of effort" line, which is contradicted in your next paragraph: If half of your raid force hasn't completed the progression nor have max AA, they're not putting in the same amount of effort. Supporting the raid-only playstyle isn't what the game is based on, and catering to it is what's going to kill the game (another soothsayer prophecy). From vanilla EverQuest, you needed to get to level 46 (in group content!) in order to raid. Grouping has always been EverQuest. Raiding has always been something more added on top. You want the top but you don't want to climb the ladder. There's no elevator. The progression grind isn't difficult. Lceanium is a lot of running around, and the spider cave takes a tank, a bit of finesse, some brute force, or any combination therein. FM, Chardok, Droga can all be task added. The longest part about SW is the grind, but that can be done in a couple hours with the right group. A day solo. (Spoiler: grab whichever faction task you're able to get, then tank your faction in favour of the other side. Use a faction pot for double hits, then use an enchanter illusion to get the last bit of faction. Get the other faction quest and run them both at the same time). Gates is a kill task - the longest part is waiting on repops since there aren't enough choks in the zone to complete the task right away. Then Lab needing tradeskills. Personally I have about 20 of each component for the tradeskill part of the task. My old guild bank had 100+. I guarantee you there are people like me in any guild that just collect this stuff for others. With the amount of people doing the artisan's prize, it would be more difficult to find someone who isn't able to do the combines for you than someone who can. That is, if you haven't put in the time yourself to do the tradeskills (see above for equal effort). You want the hard stuff without doing the easy stuff leading up to it. Then you complain the hard stuff is too hard and the easy stuff shouldn't matter.
Wow, you really aren't understanding. In TDS, raiders only had to gain 5 levels to participate in raids. In TBM, no group content was required. In EOK, no group content was required until T3. In RoS, almost all EOK progression must be completed plus gain 5 levels to participate in raids. I wasn't around for TDS raiding, so I won't comment on that, during TBM era, we got about 4 chests a week from old TDS and TBM raids in hate and fear. In EOK, we got 3 EOK chests a week, plus also ran a fair bit of TBM raids as well. All of this without doing any group progression, or forced backflagging in old raids. We still had to show up every week, devise the strategies, and work on them enough to beat the raid targets. With our weaker dps, we probably had to try harder than elite raiders to beat targets. We know a lot more about perseverance through failure than elite raiders do. Anyway, let's say that overall our effort compared to an elite raid force was a 5 due to half the raid force not working on progression or completing AA, nor do we probably put as much effort managing the raid force, creating complex GINA triggers, etc. However, with a 5 effort we have been able to get about 3 current expansion chests. Now, with RoS, if we want those 3 chests, a 5 effort won't cut it. We are probably looking at least an 8 if we want 3 chests. My argument is that a 5 effort should give us the same amount of raid access as it has in the past. But DBC in their foolishness has decided to raise the bar for the amount of effort required. The end result will be that it kills the low/mid tier guilds.
It sure is buddy, it sure is. These people aren't asking for everything in the game. They probably used to be able to make it halfway through an expansion. When a new expac came out, there were a few new things for them to do in that expac, almost always including new content to raid. The only time in history that this hasn't realistically been true is perhaps arx? Every other expansion that had raid content had some raid content that wasn't geared towards the high end. Every one. Every one. Do you get that? No wonder these "malcontents" that want to "play the game with their friends and family" instead of ditching them are "selfishly staying" with the people that they want to play the game with, similar to how they probably always have. My entitled attitude is just the attitude of a third party looking at this shift in the way the game works, and noting that it is wrong. Not very entitled at all, just obvious stuff to anyone that isn't cloudy eyed as you are. You treat people like garbage for asking for what has historically been fair. Try not doing that, you'll score more points, which still are exactly what you're after.
I also love how people minimize the amount of effort it takes to get Essence of the Dragon. First off, I have personally done it on 2 char, and helped countless more. I fully understand the amount of effort required. It requires going through most of the group content delivered in an expansion. Which works out to 12 solo and 13 group quests. It also requires mindless killing in SW to get one faction and then another near max. It requires the development of at least 1 trade skill (smithing) to 200 unless you want a lot of extra farming (just getting to 200 smithing is easier). I normally tell people to plan for a month to complete the progression. If you are super organized and have groups on beck and call, sure it can be completed sooner. But let's face it, when the new expansion is out, people are going to be even less motivated to want to work on old expansion quests (and helping a person with a solo quest is the worst). At least with TBM you were earning alt currency while you helped them with quests. In EOK, you are getting nothing. And of course, if a guild does put in the effort to get a person Essence of the Dragon, they can often watch them then leave to an elite guild that requires Essence of the Dragon completed before they accept the applicant.
Going back to analogies that don't pertain to anything, baseball was used..etc etc.. I'll go super out there. Indentured servants were "historically fair". Just because you have done one thing one way your whole life doesn't make it right for either side of an argument. Things change ppl adapt to the change, move on.
I think you are over selling the effort, a couple hours of farming vanadium or various other ores and making barbs and your skill is over 200 in what another hour of combines. And if you don't already have the essence then shame on you it has been a year, you get that achieve by doing the progression. If your argument hinges on those 2 points the those ppl that either don't have the drive or ability to do prog and auto combines. What would those folks gain from making the flags or keying less...a hand out.
20 fricking pages of people bitchin back and forth. Bottom line is this, paying for the expansion gets you new aa’s, spells, gear, and levels even if you do not raid! Now take that crap back to the guild you raid with and complete EoK group and raid progression. If you havent gotten that done in a year then how do you think you will fare in a new expansion with new mechanics? Group progression can seriously be done after work in your pajamas watching reruns of the View. Stop screwing around and start moving forward. I ran a 3 box team thru in a week. Yes you have to tradeskill, omg it’s not horrid! You may even have to ask for help, or worse spend some plat to buy the material. This isnt Velious, you cant just chain CH and dps crap in a corner anymore.
No, I'm not understanding. There is a bar with each expansion of various types. Level increase, AA increase, locked zones, whatever. You need to do group content to get above that bar. If you're saying TDS is the last expansion that you actually had to do something, you've been getting progressively closer to and closer to the bar until oof!, you finally smacked into it. Have you completed Tier 3 in EoK yet? If your answer is no, then it is new content for you. You're getting an increase in power to help beat it. 5 more levels, more AAs, more spells. The gear you get from it will be better than the gear you're currently using. You're going to have access to an additional 3-5 chests, depending on where you're currently stuck. Queen, Vault, Karzok, Dragon, Atrebe. The game is clearly on a decline, and it has been for years. CotF still has people running the HAs. TDS still has people doing progression for zone access for powersources. TBM still has people doing progression for dicho, augs, and raid gear. These expansions are still viable largely in part because the levels haven't increased. Each expansion kills the previous one - more power leaves less challenge, and people abandon it. This expansion is going to be 6 zones. One less than the previous. With a level increase, this is going to kill the previous expansion. You're already asking to not have to do effectively half of the raid progression. The devs are putting up a roadblock to force people to stay within the expansion a bit longer. Make it viable a bit longer. Stall people a bit longer so they don't run out of content. Does it suck? Sure, you're not getting the new shiny toy that everyone else is getting. I can see that. You're still able to get last year's toy, which is still new to you. But guess what - we're all still playing with that toy. We all have to still go back to the old, dirty, nasty expansion that we've been grinding for a year. We need to gear up new folks, retirees who have returned, alts, main changes, etc.
In DPS thread most of these same folks were complaining that there was no reason to do previous raid content any longer due to group gear being close to equal or better for some classes/slots. Now, EoK raid gear was clearly made to be better than RoS group gear, with plenty of other added incentive to not only do, but completely finish the content. Result? Same few people still complaining. Even if RoS content was unlocked by Devs today, what would result be? Same few people complaining that it's too hard and needs a nerf. We all see the trend here. In EoK, casuals were gifted with the strongest group gear of all eras, even 13 rares that were equivalent to cutting edge raid gear and multiple easy raid targets. You're not going to fool the Developers with novellas, they've more than looked out and catered to all crowds. If they want stuff to be a bit more challenging this installment, great, makes perfect sense.
Lol I'm just throwing another ridiculous comparison out there. Not unlike the last 20 pages. And as far as the potato goes, how good is it, I may just stick with the potato if it has more to offer than the steak. Then yes I would move on
How am I overselling it? I listed precisely what was needed. I said that getting to 200 smithing skill is easier than extra farming. As for the shame on you part, I have personally done it. Half my guild hasn't. Shame all you want, but that is what my guild faces. And if you think the half that hasn't will magically start to put in the effort doing an old expansion, you aren't dealing with reality. Not everyone puts 20+ hours a week into EQ. Some only put in 10 if that. Being a game there is nothing wrong with that.
LOL I bet it was elite raiders complaining about how good the EOK group gear was. Low/Mid tier raiders were quite happy to have access to better gear. "Even if RoS content was unlocked by Devs today, what would result be? Same few people complaining that it's too hard and needs a nerf. " If it is harder than EOK T1 then yes it needs a nerf. Our request is that Devs not raise the bar on the difficulty of T1 raiding.
