If we're being honest here, there's no reason why you can't beat a Wizard in the same group on a sustained parse..( Can't expect to beat them on a 200 or less second parse ) I'm not going to post parses here, as I've learned my lesson with that..On a nightly basis for the most part, I'm either around 5%-10% away from the highest parsing Wizard, or I'm beating them. Those saying Mages aren't a DPS class just haven't met any good ones. Igniz, if you aren't parsing yourself you are missing tons of your damage, no one else will pick up your parse accurately, maybe on one or two events they might...Wizards can easily be picked up, it's not the same for Mages, we're almost as bad as Necro's at times, when it comes to others picking up our parses.
How come? I thought all DD and melee attacks are parsed at the mob and only DoTs are parsed near the caster? I am, though, up for any suggestion about raising my DPS you might have.
Pet DD attacks only register to the owner, so they won't get picked up on other people's parsers. A lot of it depends on if your getting bard dicho rotations for sustained DPS as well. The mana issues are real....
The issue is that pet DPS has been stagnated (or even decreased) during the last few expansions, meaning they are an even crappier DoT than they used to be. We have become much more reliant on spell DPS, despite our spell DPS also being nerfed significantly. Our main pets and especially our RS pets were a significant part of what allowed us to perform well on sustained fights. They did not scale as well with burn abilities/ADPS as DDs do, but they had quite high DPS in the absence of those abilities. RS used to be well ahead of the damage of our nukes outside of burns; now its damage is rather mediocre compared to our best nukes in a raid. The Mage class on raids really feels like playing a crappy Wizard at this point. We have pets, but their performance on raids is abysmal, leading us to rely on nuke DPS more and more. At the same time, we've given up rains, which gave DPSing as a Mage a unique feel, for a very Wizard-esque straight DD lineup (with the exception of Storm I suppose). As much as I want our DPS to be relevant, I also much preferred the style of play that raiding Mages had in RoF/CotF. I've answered this for you in PMs previously, and I don't have the energy or desire to get bogged down in arguments about the exact percentages on these boards. I'm fine with 75% or whatever on burst fights, but in return I believe Mages should be able to beat out Wizards on sustained fights. In my experience, that is not currently true.
Yar I remember, mainly curious what other people think and the tone of your post seemed like 65-70% was a huge injustice, when to an outsider it's perhaps not quite right, but also not totally out of the ballpark either. Out of curiosity, this fabled wiz 0-3m, mag 4-6m, nec 7-onward layout a lot of you guys seem to try and cling to, how long has it been since we had that? And when it was happening, what was it that was causing wiz dps to drop off a cliff...running out of mana? Having to switch the a sustained approach due to low mana? Given wiz mana return abilities vs mages, seems like that's a big difference between then and now? Their utility is pretty crappy in modern EQ now too, and if you're going to beat them on any fight longer than 4m and retain group strengths, that'd seem a little out of whack, no? Worse, how long has it been since we got enough raid content with diverse enough encounters to actually see amy of this in practice? Efficiency tends to take a backseat in the modern era...burn everything at all times asap solves a lot of things.
In early EQ, yes, Wizards ran out of mana quite quickly and so did Mages AFAIK. Having a pet that could continue to DPS even when the caster lacked mana was a big benefit. I don't know that Mages ever had particularly great mana usage/regen, but the gap also wasn't nearly as large as has been since the rain nerf. Moving to more recent times, Wizards have had many abilities added that significantly amplify the damage of their spells during a burn (twincast, crit chance/damage mods, etc). Mages have these types of abilities too, but they are generally less potent, meaning the difference between our mods on a max burn and on a sustained fight is not as large (at least theoretically) as it is for Wizards. Also think about RS pets; they can't twincast, they can't be focused, they can't crit. Despite all that, they were still our highest DPS spell for a long time. They couldn't be simply spammed because of mana costs, but they still played an important role in preventing the same drop off in DPS that other classes experience. This paradigm was more or less intact through RoF/CotF. In raids, Wizard utility isn't much worse than Mage utility. I do not accept that utility in groups justifies us not being competitive at DPSing in raids. If the devs have a problem with our group utility (which has also taken a number of nerfs), punishing Mages who would like to be useful in raids seems misplaced.
Count yourself lucky dps almost always stacks in raids. Excess tanking sure doesn't. In general though I'm not sure I agree. If I'm too close to what a warrior does functionally in raids but retain advantages everywhere else, that's having the cake and eating it too (which is why knight stances went a bit too far, imo, but that's another topic). Not saying Mages don't need some love, and you and I have already rehashed some ideas, but it seems like (purely opinion and observation here) most of the community wants to view nuking dps class hierarchy as 1a and 1b, when the devs look at it more like 1 and 2, given that in most other aspects of the game #2 can do more via a pet acting in a non-dps capacity, everything summoning now and that strength at least being partly offset by it's crappy applications in raiding. Maybe I'm wrong and swift wizard nerfs are coming, but it seems like it's been years and years of them being in a really good spot for it to be a mistake and/or unintended. I've heard the term "tier2 dps class" before, and seen monks, mages and some others lumped into it arbitrarily by players. Any idea where those came from? Curious if the devs ever used them or if it was purely a player based label.
In 2000, burst events were considered around 2 minutes or less, while sustained events were considered around 7 minutes or more. In 2016, burst events are considered around 30 minutes or less, while sustained events are considered around 100 minutes or more. WTB more triunity events!
Igniz, Well, I stand corrected if you didn't do Hate and Fear, but that does make the situation rather worse for you then because one to one you did objectively worse. I didn't include a Wizard parse for 2 reasons: 1) I wasn't comparing Wizards to Mages. I was comparing your rather awful parse to a mage I know is quite good. What Wizards can do has no bearing on that whatsoever. 2) As I said above, we rotate members out between events so that everyone on our roster plays. We also split raid Sul 1 and 2. I'm not sure which Wizard (if any) was there for exactly the same events as the Mage above to compare to. Yes, I could have looked more indepth, or compared the top Wizard on an event-to-event basis, but it isn't always the same Wizard so that's not quite fair to do, plus why would I go through that effort when I wasn't comparing Wizards in the first place? Anyway, the only reason they did 100k less damage is because 1) There were 3 less events listed and 2) The duration was way, way less. If our raids had lasted 3 times longer he would have murdered you on total damage, but you know that already. I actually didn't say you don't know how to play your class. In fact I said rather the opposite when I said I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you probably are not as bad as the numbers make it out and I attributed the massive difference as likely being caused by your supporting adps classes. GamParse doesn't count dead time. Dead time meaning the time between Fights when nothing is happening at all. If you combine a Fight from Sunday May 29th, and Sunday June 5th together it will not be a week long timeframe. The time will be the duration of Fight1 + duration of Fight2. You can easily test this yourself. If the combined parse says 8,000 seconds or w/e it was, then -someone- in your raid was engaged in a fight for that total timeframe. It may not be the -same- person, but the aggregate time was that long. Hopefully that makes sense.
Combined: Ritualist of Life on 6/5/2016 in 3888sec Total --- DMG: 498814493 @ 128296 sdps (128296 dps in 3888s) [100%] --- 1. i don't remember how many times i died or pet died 2. i'm not going to post anyone else's numbers (thanks for that Bei!), i don't remember or care to look 3. i don't remember why i didn't post numbers for any events i was in 4. i don't remember if my adps was 100% on point, but they're usually very good 5. i don't remember if i sat 6. i drink A LOT when i play this game (see above vis-a-vis the 'i don't remembers') 7. i rarely post and don't care what any of you think about me or my ability to play this game 8. could i have done better? probably. i play the game to talk to friends and hang out while i raid 9. i'm not in support of anyone in this thread, just adding clarity to a single point as i am the only one able to accurately do so via self parsing 10. this is the entirety of my involvement in this most recent raid cycle
It's your amazing super power, my friend. Also, LL is one of the best, and chill, mages I've ever played with. Great guy, too.
1. Self parse on raids is the only accurate parse you can get for yourself. 2. Any posted number needs to have context, otherwise it is misleading. What classes provided ADPS, how on point was the ADPS, etc. 3. Some magicians do a lot of extra little things that tend to add up. Using the right tribute. Using your TDS power source. Using a hedge wizard potion. Using a glyph at the right moment. I know of a magician that gives the pet a couple pieces of gear that has been parsed to give the pet an extra 3k DPS. I know there has been times when I have forgotten to use tribute, potion, PS, glyph. And I have finished 1k DPS less than the magician ahead of me. If I used all four of those, how much higher could I have been? Bottom line is... parses are fun. But they may not be true indicators of magician skill.
So if I am reading this correctly, your guild clears the entire Akapan Adan event (trash, named, spawned adds during named phase) in under four minutes?
Health 1(tier1) imo would refer to Vim and Vigor/Lady of Life. Health 2(tier 2) would be Akkapan or Grummus. Most likely refers to Vim and Vigor.
Demiplane of Life 1 = Vim / Vigour Demiplane of Life 2 = Anashti Sul, Lady of Life Demiplane of Decay 1 = Wither / Decay Demiplane of Decay 2 = Anashti Sul, Damsel of Decay Plane of Health 1 = Akkapan Adan Plane of Health 2 = Grummus Ruins of Lxanvom 1 = Emollius Ruins of Lxanvom 2 = Grannus of the cleansing steam Crypt of Decay 1 = High Bokon Boromas Crypt of Devay 2 = Anashti Sul, Enslaver of Souls ___________________ From this week's raid cycle (my own parse). I cannot provide correct parsedata for other players, sadly, as I was probably often too far away from the mobs. Combined: Akkapan Adan + Trash in 856s, Igniz + pets 46597k@(55539dps in 839s) Sadly, I died during last trash wave. We did the 15 minute achievement during that try
