Discussion in 'Casters' started by Millianna, May 11, 2016.

  1. Cindayen Elder

    yesterday? Im fairly certain they didn't but i can look and see here shortly
  2. Licious New Member

    Need an update to Mage DoTs K,thanks.
    Yimin likes this.
  3. Sheex Augur

  4. Millianna Augur

    I just ignored that retraction. He isn't the only one complaining. There are several creditable people with the same issue. The question left- was this a bug or a stealth nerf.
    Goranothos likes this.
  5. Goranothos Augur

    Long work weekend so haven't had a chance to read the forums since Friday. Thank you. Yes, I was the initial complainer on the forums about the pets taking more damage post patch, which I later retracted because I believed that my dinging 104 right before the patch caused the mobs within the Gribble instance to level up with me when I tried it again the next day and noticed my pet taking more damage. I just had too many variables (dinging a new level, then the patch hit, then the fact that the instance leveled with me) for me to continue to creditably claim that the patch somehow nerfed my pet.

    However, other mages and necros on the forums, who were already 105, noticed that their pets weren't tanking as well either, then Sancus did some actual testing and figured out that the pets weren't receiving as much Shielding as they were before the patch (35% Vs 44%).

    So, long story short, the nerf was real. Whether anything will be done to correct it remains to be seen. My regret is I was the first one to post about it on these forums given the fact that I had too many variables, and no time or means to do proper testing. All I could say was, essentially, "these Gribble mobs are damaging my pet more than they did yesterday."
    Vdidar, Cindayen and Sancus like this.
  6. p2aa Augur

    That pets are capped at 35 % like players pre new caps isn't something wrong.
    Maybe the 44 % was not intended for pets.
    Good mages btw can still do what they were doing before it, so for those that say they cannot do anything anymore maybe step up your gameplay ?
    Yimin likes this.
  7. Piemastaj Augur

    Issue is, the pets were re-tuned around having that percentage. The Developers found their tanking to be acceptable with that being higher then 35%. It took 4-5 Test patches to get pets to where they saw them being in an acceptable spot.

    So, it is not a point of step your game up. It is a point of stop stealth nerfing a class that doesn't need any more nerfs. They tried to alleviate issues on their end and by doing so decreased power of multiple classes pets in the process. They should go back and do another round of testing to ensure pets are where they are supposed to be, and currently they are not based on previous patches.
    Goranothos, Spellfire, Igniz and 2 others like this.
  8. Igniz Augur

    "Good mages can still" ... I have read that exact notion so many times over the last years, that I can't help but snicker slightly hysterically whenever I read it now.

    This is not a matter of "Oh, dang! The good mages will continue and only the bad ones will leave/roll something else". I mean, it's not as if there are awefully many main mages are still around.Or Necromancers ... We dont need to "thin the ranks". And nerfs like this (intended or not) are one way to thin the ranks, sooner or later. The nerfbat has hit mages quite a couple times in a row now and, tbh, I am quite sick of "stepping up my gameplay" every time my main class gets pinata'ed.
  9. Tweelis Augur

    Some mages are content with pulling with malo, sending pet then dropping rains until the mob is dead. This change will make those mages use their host in a shell and/or promised heal once or twice a mob.

    Other mages enjoy pushing the envelope for the times they play. These mages would do everything they could to see if they can take on a yellow (or even red) con mob. Some even would have fun taking on multiple lower level mobs such as 2-3 dark blue con's.

    Before this change my merc (on reactive) and I could take on two "an unearthed monstrosity" in Dead Hills; me providing some pet support but mostly blasting away to kill the mobs. If needed we could handle three but it would require everything I had and even then it would be iffy if we could survive.

    After the change I went back to Dead Hills; not wanting to believe what I've been reading about both here and on the mage boards. As before with my merc on reactive, full buffs plus a compliment of extravagant autoactuated player made armor. My pet died in 22 seconds when against 2 dark blue "an unearthed monstrosity", would have been much sooner if not for mend companion.
    Goranothos likes this.
  10. Goranothos Augur

    Yep, pet classes (Necs, Mages, BSTs) were stealth nerfed with the latest patch (unintentional or not). Devs can lock threads all they want, but truth is truth.
  11. Millianna Augur

    My mage has been reduced to the state he was during end RoK and the start of SoV... Parked for CoH.
  12. Igniz Augur

    While I wouldn't just go that far, mages are definitely hurting atm, especially on raids, both in desirability as well as raw DPS.

    From my guild's official parse of last week, this is a full combine of the raid evening, including all burns and sustains.Necros don't show up reliably, as they usually are positioned too far away from the mob. Fun fact: There were only two wizards present on that raid evening

    First wizard 777458k@91369sdps (91487dps in 8498s) [5.82%] ---
    Second wizard 718990k@84498sdps (84547dps in 8504s) [5.38%] ---
    Igniz + pets 509638k@59894sdps (59993dps in 8495s) [3.81%] ...

    Maybe I just suck, after all ... But I still am of the opinion that the gap between the "casters" has become too big,.

    Also, at the moment, our DPS pets are dieing pretty quickly during raids, which reduces our effective DPS even further. Yesterday, my pet was hit by two AoEs during Crypt of Sul Anashti raid event. First AoE reduced the pet to 45% HP. I did not interrupt the RS I was casting, but the next spell would have been a pet heal, but alas, my pet was killed by a second AoE before the pet heal hit :-(
    Sancus likes this.
  13. Leex Augur

    Yeah, unfortunately it wasn't just shielding that took a hit, spell shielding got nerfed as well.

    Before the change to mod2's symbiosis hit for around 3300ish ( I can't recall the exact value ), now it's hitting for 4560. What I suggest is just make sure you've got Darkened rune on your pet with Aegis running and get your friendly clerics to DI, for starters.

    I'm willing to bet if you test, you'll also notice accuracy and avoidance took a hit as well.
  14. Igniz Augur

    Haven't looked that deep into the parses, but I noticed a ~5% decrease in my pet's average damage compared to last week, but I attributed that to bad RNG. Can't say anything about avoidance as I am rarely playing my mage outside raids atm.

    Edit: PS, I failed to point out that both wizards and myself in my numbers above were all in the same group with the same amount of support.
  15. Sancus Augur

    A bit of a tangent, but I'm convinced avoidance does basically nothing for pets. These parses are from CotF, but to illustrate:

    EM 20 Lvl 99 Earth Pet (~30 mins):
    Tanking summary for: Lobtik (Sancus) --- Total damage: 11224117 --- Avg hit: 4350 --- Swings: 3472 --- Defended: 563 (16.2%) --- Hit: 2580 (74.3%) --- Missed: 329 (9.5%) --- Accuracy: 88.7% --- Dodged: 83 (2.8%) --- Parried: 107 (3.3%) --- Blocked: 247 (7.1%) --- Riposted: 126 (4%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

    Unfocused Lvl 99 Earth Pet (~15 mins):
    Tanking summary for: Xasarn (Sancus) --- Total damage: 7784937 --- Avg hit: 5633 --- Swings: 1853 --- Defended: 310 (16.7%) --- Hit: 1382 (74.6%) --- Missed: 161 (8.7%) --- Accuracy: 89.6% --- Dodged: 42 (2.6%) --- Parried: 65 (3.8%) --- Blocked: 131 (7.1%) --- Riposted: 72 (4.3%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

    The unfocused pet has no EM cloak, which means it's missing 100 avoidance. The hit % are basically the same, and well within the margin of error.
    Leex likes this.
  16. kizant Augur

    These numbers look good. Doing 65% or 70% the damage of a DPS class makes sense.
  17. Sancus Augur

    If Mages are not a DPS class on raids, what exactly are we? Last time I checked DPS was my only job, so no, 65% or 70% is not acceptable.
  18. Igniz Augur

    Ignoring the danger of repeating myself yet again ...

    Traditionally, between the three caster DPS classes, wizards used to have the highest burn, while necromancers excelled at delivering sustained damage over a very large period. Magicians used to be somewhere in between. So, any fight shorter than 3 minutes was dominated by wizards. After that, Necromancers and Magicians slowly overtook wizards (who had burnt their mana or ran at a slower pace to compensate for especially long duration events). Any fight between 3 and 6 minutes was mostly a magician's territory, long enough to actually make use of the tools we had (like rains as a mana efficient source of damage, our pets, clickies and so on) while maintaining a rather good DPS. On the long duration events (9 minutes and counting), when both MAG and WIZ already had lost all their mana, necromancers, with their high mana/damage ratio spells and excellent mana regeneration overtook both other caster classes, and the longer the fight would go on from there, necromancers would pull ahead further.

    Sadly, this kind of "flowing balance", where different casters where actually better suited for different types of events has long since disappeared. The "burstained" of wizards has become potent to a degree, where they dominate all events no matter the duration. Meanwhile, Necromancers and Mages keep getting pinataed with the nerf bat occassionally.

    You might want to go on "BUUUUUT!!! You got that OP pet of yours!!" - Please DO keep in mind, that my pet's damage is actually combined in the figures pointed out above, and that these "OP" pets tend to evaporate pretty easily atm, while our hardier pets (earth and air) have lost quite a lot of their offensive power, while still getting bonked over the head in the survivability department. So, our acclaimed forte, our pets, have become more of a liability than a bonus, actually.
  19. Triconix Augur

    Mod rod distributor, obviously.
    Sancus likes this.
  20. Reht Augur

    You are.....well.......i think.......maybe, but......guess idea.....i got it - nerf dummies!
    Cindayen, Leex and Sancus like this.

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