Pallies can keep 25% mitigation/absorb up at all times... if they use their spells. That stacks with the discs. Shining helps but the discs? No they will not be up full time. I also wish druids adren burst line would stack but I still like it for when things get real busy and I can't protective myself, adren has me covered for a few hits, hell land vie on me to for when both of those run out since it's sitting on my buff window.
Not trying to create drama sir, just wondering why knights were crying for more mitigation but apparently that isn't the case?
My guildie just told me that one of our SKs just swarmed about a dozen mobs with a healer and dps merc in Crypt of Sul. Knights are so OP in the group game it's just stupid. Knights have far more utility, can now effectively tank end game bosses and dominate every aspect of the group game. Pretty much outclass a warrior in just about every scenario outside of the hardest hitting raid mobs (which there are none this expansion). It's pretty safe to say balance is completely gone at this point.
I'm a knight and I think it's way OP! But then again... I actually use mitigation and ask for it from druids and clerics as well as my own spells...
mantle does not stack with protective, impose, or shinning. Only the one with the highest % will take effect. they are all damage absorb abilities. Holy guardian does stack with those, but only the highest % one will stack. There are 2 types of damage reduction abilities, damage absorb (vie) and mitigation. vie is a % based off of the total hit and mitigation takes a % off based on the DI portion.
Oh, what guild is doing this? or what events have all the top guilds switched to using Knights as their MT? Enchanters and Clerics figured all of the % mitigation stuff years ago... not sure how everyone else missed the boat. I believe it was Crystilla who did extensive tests with Cleric Vie and Enchanter Veil, etc.
Do you raid at all? You say sks have a raid role of "special duties" based on versatility that isn't unique to the class and doesn't apply in modern raids at all. I ask you what duties you're talking about and the answer is "use my imagination"? I think we're done here.
Just because guilds aren't doing it [yet] means that the knights cannot? My guild just plugged in knights to the MT order for poops and giggles the other night. The parses? Pretty much identical to a warrior. They were consistently within 1k average hit and beat out some warriors. It's not like we're a mid tier guild either. Unless top 4 is mid tier now /shrug There's actually five (or more) types of reduction abilities. Not just two. You have SpA 55, 162, 168, 197, 451 just off the top of my head.
Just go away. You already admitted you don't play. You already admitted you haven't played in a "long time", so why are you here? The mere fact you mentioned warriors somehow not being wanted for groups now (HAH! Groups? Newsflash, there are no groups that aren't friends or boxes, except on expansion release when you can add in guildies). No one ever says "looking for a knight" or "looking for a warrior". They look for a tank, period. Hop in your time machine and go away. Warriors have been MASSIVELY OVERPOWERED in every facet of tanking for the past 2-3 years. It has broken the game. And instead of going back and fixing the last few expansions after nerfing DP for warriors, they decided to make knights OP as well. Go go tiny dev team and limited ability to do anything. If nothing else, this entire debacle shows just how ridiculous warriors had it and how badly it needed to be nerfed. And it explains why knights freaking splatted so much in TDS raids while warriors snoozed through it. Either the entire thing gets nerfed for EVERYBODY or nothing gets nerfed. Take your pick.
If Defensive Profiency's 30% mitigation made Warriors MASSIVELY OVERPOWERED, then they have been OP since Kunark. Defensive Discipline (then Stonewall/Final Stand/Last Stand as the game progressed) has kept its 45% mitigation this whole time. Paladin and Shadow Knight Un/Holy Guardian must be super OP also at 36% mitigation. It's 6% more than Defensive Proficiency, why is DP considered OP but Guardian is not? Why is an ability that isn't nearly as strong as our best tanking tool considered OP and the original tool is not? When Warriors got Phalanx of One for 10% mitigation, was that OP too?
Because one is on all the time..the other was 2mins every 12mins. It also lowered your melee damage fairly substantially which for sk's actually hurts them.
It absolutely does not hurt you on raids our damage is nothing your heals only help so much on raids. Raid tanking has been about how well you give your healers time to switch to you and how well they take over from there . It has been like that since underfoot. Warriors die in a second too when they don't use the tools that they have to survive. You also realize last stand discipline is 3 minutes out of every 10 and besides that and what we stack with it Warlords tenacity(long recast and degrades), Pain doesn't hurt ( makes us take more damage when the npc hits for more than the threshold), Dichotomic shielding (which lasts like 30 seconds) , and mark of the mage hunter/epic (long recasts). Is absolutely about all the useful abilities we have . The other stuff is negligible and /or only buff our ac. The rest we have to beg for support from other classes and hope our healers get us through the spike damage even with defensive proficiency up. It took 5 years of stagnation and 90% of the upgrades given to us was hate stuff to get defensive proficiency and it was not just thrown out there with another aa which is what made it 30% btw / We lost a 10% all the time active aa to gain 5% more on defensive proficiency. The reason you guys got tore up in TDS was because you needed Flash of anger and you guys got that . Every time you didn't use deflection on a transition you died. When you should of been asking for heals before you even took it . I have seen sk tank the hardest hitting npc in TDS while their disciplines were up which is the same thing that happened to the warriors till we was fully geared or close to fully geared or our heal team was playing to the top of their game. Now if he would of gave you 15% on defensive proficiency not one warrior but a tool would of complained we seen you needed a bump you didn't need to be able to stack up to 52% mitigation which is higher than our last stand discipline while especially for paladins having 75% increased healing. I bet none of us would of even complained if they took the max damage parts off of your guardian lines and just made it 36% or whatever for 2 minutes out of every 12 . It is the stacking of the stuff you had with our ability that was given to us to make us useful in all aspects of the game for more than 3 minutes out of 10 minutes that is the issue and is why your shiny new ability will truly make you guys the flavor of the month and will prolly hurt your classes in the long run looking at how things have been handled lately.
Are you even paying attention to what I'm saying or are you just blathering about for the sake of arguing? I don't get it. I basically said in a nutshell that it's probably best for the game that all 3 tank classes be able to tank bosses, but that this leaves warriors with a gigantic gaping monstrous hole in the class, where there is no reward for the painful journey. My solution is for the journey to be fixed so that the reward is no longer required or expected. Warriors haven't been "massively overpowered in every facet of tanking", warriors have an exclusive set of skills that get better the harder the NPC's hit, which doesn't apply to "every aspect of tanking", it doesn't apply to even 5% of tanking, it applies to tanking extremely hard hitting NPC's. However, you know this, you've always been obfuscationist, with an inability to look at the big picture and only at your narrow set of wants. You can't take your one isolated role out that you so desperately crave, which is raid boss tanking balance, which for the 40th time, I agree you should be able to do, and assume that this means the rest of the game is balanced, it's not... by a long, long, long long shot. I suspect that you know this because you built a straw man just so you'd have something to argue about, which is "what do groups ask for?" instead of "are the classes of similar levels of power and fun throughout the game?" which everyone knows is so far skewed towards knights that you can't get a radar fix on it.
Many members of the EQ's gaming community felt the 30% mitigation with 100% uptime shielding profiency was way overshot when it was originally implemented for Warriors only. Not just the other tanks, DPS classes were even illustrating logical parallels as to how it probably wasn't best for the game. All the while, vast majority of wars ran around claiming it wasn't unbalanced and that other classes were wishing nerfs upon them etc etc. Anyone that has actually played the game realizes how unbalanced things became moment the ability was added in for only one tank(while that same tank was getting additional boosts to survivability in other areas on top of that). Either it was going to be nerfed or given to the other tanks. Otherwise it would of stay completely unbalanced. I'm not a fan of it for ANY of the tanks. Drop off from main tank discs/abilities should be larger IMO. Also, a high probablity of death should occur if slow to hit main tank discs etc. against challenging content.
Funny you didn't mention what a Warrior can do burning their dich shield, nttb, last stand, etc while a merc AEs the mobs and a cleric heals - did you really think no one would notice how you left that out? I've seen the trains Warriors can pull in the past using their cool downs and quite frankly, what you're describing sounds like child's play. If knights are OP, then Warriors are gods. And for the record, I love the fact that a Warrior could do what they do. Knight's being able to do a portion of that should not be a problem, and this coming from a knight who thinks knight DP should be a bit less than a Warrior's.
And this is a reply to Seldom. You know that's odd I was highly involved in testing and getting these abilities added along with some other big name warriors in the community and I hardly remember anyone complaining about them being balance breaking . In fact I remember many many people excited the warriors finally stopped being stagnated after 5 years .
A warrior can't do that without a real cleric and a pretty decent dps group swarming is not 3 - 4 mobs ...
