Aggro on raid mobs/burn mobs with no fade

1) Casters have to manage aggro too. Anyone that tells you otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.

2) Having to stop attacking to control aggro is awful design. You should never have to STOP PLAYING for any reason.

If they want people to have to manage aggro better the correct way to go about it is to give them more/better ways of doing so.

But someone on the forums said it so it must be true!!!

I like this change.
It's going back to sort of old school. I don't think every class should have a fade.

Current game has made agro management a joke.
I'm a Ranger and we have stagnated hardcore the last 2 years, so anything that levels the playing field "sort of" is better.

Not being able to drop all agro also allows for better DPS players that can ride that agro-line to showcase a little.
That used to be one of the hallmarks of Rangers DPS'ing on raids before the agro meter.
Get mana flare, activate discs, and burn like crazy, hover over weaponshield and be ready to jolt.
If you could handle the agro the dps produced, you would do great.

Now it's just all about what DPS the DEVs have given other classes.
So, in general, I like this change.

I have to say I'm surprised by the level of animosity in this response Silv.

To your first point, the issue is that aggro climbs uncontrollably and extremely quickly now. Backing away for a handful of seconds does of course help, but I don't believe we should have to disengage the mob to keep aggro under control.

The Berserker class has struggled so much to be competitive on parses (which to your second point, is, in fact, doing our job), that I see this as a major step back, vs. just a minor issue of "aggro management".

You imply here that we were on cruise control and are whining that we now have to lightly pump the brakes to avoid traffic, when in reality (if last nights raids are any indication) we were having to SLAM on the brakes and pull over to avoid oncoming traffic. If the intention of the devs is to try to keep burn classes competitive with each other, my point here, is that the aggro issue is doing just the opposite.

Lastly, you place this issue against people complaining that TDS was too easy. I think this is quite a stretch - I don't think anyone was complaining that Tank aggro/ DPS aggro dumping was too easy.

Beimeith - I completely agree.

You're right - it was overly hostile and I apologize. I am overly sympathetic to Zerkers because they have gotten the short end on a lot of stuff.

However, I also think it's way too soon to make large scale judgements after a single night of raiding. Many others here agree that they've noticed no change so to me that suggests there is some other discrepancy than solely the changes from the most recent patch. As for things being "too easy" - I don't think anyone ever actively says things like that but most would agree it's true.

While I completely agree that gear does not equal skill. Maybe you should look up the word exemplary. I would argue that RoV has the best tank team in this game. Maybe I am a bit biased but they rock. If I was throwing out the assumption that gear = skill then it is just as silly as assuming that this aggro problem lies solely with the tanks. I would suggest that perhaps you don't have a kick berzerker like Arcainos in your raid.

And I'll agree you're right - it was admittedly knee-jerk. However, when changes are made, I think it's important to flag potential issues immediately before they get stale and become "the way it is".
We have, and will continue, to work on adjusting our aggro management for this issue, but I'm hoping that we don't see the same problems in future raids with little mitigation other than turning off auto-attack.

Didn't see any aggro issues last night out of the norm, will have a closer look tonight, certainly zerkers are usually on the lower end of the aggro meter compared to other dps from my experience.

So far only he has seen aggro problems. Something doesn't add up. It's hard to lay judgement, but there are multiple people from multiple guilds giving examples that are quite opposite of what Arcainos said. I highly doubt in all these upper echelon raid guilds, not a single one has a berserker (or any player) with similar skill to Arcainos. The odds in better favor of my assumption, I would think.

Plus, a single button press every minute or so and the warrior has a pretty solid gap in aggro (phantom aggressor).

and train the light blue through zones that can swing once to get in summon mode with a riposte or a DS lol? Fading a raid lvl mob is a failure in my book and we just got please by it on how easy it was to bypass.

Healers need to throw some preventive healing before the initial aggro. Tanks usually engage raid mobs with Fort so minimum 24 sec without damage, up 30 if Flash was added unless there is some type of AEs or some type of strikethrough ability... Still plenty of time to get the healers behind on list and to give all tanks and not just one to aim for ramp and then DPS can jump in as hard as they want by keeping a eye on the aggro meter but still... its not hard for a warrior to lock aggro on 1 mob with 20 + agro abilities.

Im talking much but Im far from been perfect my self. It can happen that a necro will pull agro but depending whats going on I might think more defensive for to long and not aggro as much for a period of time and that is what is great about it!

We'll have to see what next week's raids look like with some adjustments.

Honestly though, losing the ability to fade or not dump aggro is going to cause issues. I may be the first to say/notice something, but I'm sure it's going to start coming up.

whats so funny about this case right here is that we had a tank go linkdead as i was tanking some adds on ghost on the opposite side if the pyramid i and after it died i halled butt to otherside picked up the named from some poor enchanter that had aggro after warrior link deaded and snagged it off him . saw kaed burning and pushed 2 bottons then kaed wasent to be found on the meter again so going form no aggro to all to aggro dominance from the otherside of the zone and him still going full burn with no problem. now granted his no zerker his just a scumbag ranger but it still counts for something =P

agro is definitely an issue for zerkers, no matter how good your tanks are its going to be a challenge to not steal agro on adds or when burning. Arcainos isnt the only zerker seeing this problem.

We had no abnormal aggro issues last night. In fact, we cleared Arx quicker than usual. Our good tanks did not waver. Our so-so ones, were no worse than usual.

Our top zerk did not die any more than usual (and he probably dies more than anyone on any given night).

I waited to see these changes myself. Ok, we did Arx1 last night. Nothing like the OP says. /shrug

Tanks just need to try harder to maintain enough aggro now. Before the fade nerf, dps classes could compensate for bad tank aggro by fading a lot. Now they can't, and tanks' incompetence is more exposed. Umm... get better tanks?

If casters are able to ignore agro during a burn because of silent casting melee need the same ability for melee attacks.

starting to wonder if people who have never actively played a zerk understand just how bad there jolts are... leave the fade changes for all i care but fix zerk jolts like i was asking for on my old main for 5+ years before finally main changing after being ignored for so long you would be surprised how fast a zerk can climb the aggro list once warrior one click buttons are in cooldown

We cleared Arx again last night. On at least one of the events I did have to hold back a little on dps as a ranger. I tried to be proactive about the changes by using jolting strikes instead of devastating or roaring strikes. It seemed to help on most events. I never got agro on arx 5 adds which is a major plus.

As a caster I didn't feel anything any different, I've always pretty much managed my aggro for the most part though so I guess it wasn't a big deal.

I do wish the pet hate reduction part of summon companion was still with it though..Just means I've got to use a hotkey instead. /sigh.