Lockjaw Rotation Updated - 8/15/15

racing or not racing is two different styles of gameplay, one can be a casual player who enjoys racing to targets, or a hardcore player who does not.

FFA racing is ersatz PvP it has nothing to do with being casual or hardcore if anything its a difference between being for or against PvP content, if you were hardcore your guild would all be red flagged for PvP from the Priest of Discord by your definition.

Then again we all know your attempt to define hardcore as pro PvP or pro FFA had more to do with trying to label others as somehow inferior or less than hardcore if you were opposed to having them domininate a rotation. There were many hardcore guilds that participated in zero FFA rotations, the majority of the guilds that completed the content originally in era in fact as a result of the PnP and GM enforced rotations and agreements being present.

There is nothing wrong with wanting some FFA, thats your position, the 1:1 FFA is just where its out of touch on long rotation schedules. 1:1 works more reasonably on shorter rotation cycles not long ones.

Right now The boss mobs spawn about every 1.5 days, vs 7 days, its insane right now, even with lets say 11 guilds on rotation you can get a CT fairly quickly compared to the old days of waiting 2 or even 3 months for your turn.

Everything I have read about the proposed idea from Darth sounds reasonable. You have guilds that wish to compete for content, and guilds that don't. His suggested system meets the needs of both groups of players. A guild can elect to participate in either system (not both).

Sounds pretty reasonable, the only topic left for discussion is how many targets are allowed for each style of play.

Looking at his idea of 1:1 also sounds very fair (before you flame me, hear me out). The chosen style of play shouldn't dictate the number of targets available regardless of the participation in either style. To say any different is just expressing your own self entitlement. Why is your style of play better and more deserving than their style of play?

I'm sure the answer will be "our style of play impacts more people". One style of play will always impact more people. The large majority of players will always take the path of least resistance. It's human nature. That doesn't make your style of play more deserving than theirs.

One style of play has guarantee of targets, the other does not. To put it another way, one style of play has risk, the other does not. Where there is risk, there is reward. This has loosely been the premise of the game since it's inception.

This has nothing to do with who is *hardcore* or who is *casual*. In fact I detest those labels altogether. If you're claiming to be *hardcore* because you can sit in a chair for a long number of hours you really have warped notion of that term.

Someone who gets it. It's not a matter of hardcore or casual, its a matter of competitive or non competitive. We want to being able to play the way we'd like to play but also give those people a chance who want to see content the ability to do that. This is what Darth's plan sets in motion.

First of all, just because nobody else wishes to go FFA doesn't mean that Faceless is to blame for this situation.
I believe that 100% of people here came back for nostalgia. For some people, the nostalgia is the thrill of a 3am call to race a competing guild to kill a dragon. For some people, the nostalgia is just having the chance to meet up with your now grown up adult friends to engage a dragon you haven't seen in years and it's all about reliving the experience.
I think the beauty of this proposal is that it meets the needs of both types of everquest players. I think the idea of not having FFA is absurd as what would stop Faceless from splintering to 2 or 3 guilds along with AD and MM also splintering to at least 2 guilds a peace thus inflating the rotation even higher. Even if these guilds don't split you are most likely facing 15-20 possible guilds capable of killing these bosses by the end of classic creating a very long wait for your turn at an encounter. I think this is a situation that almost everyone wishes to avoid and the logical conclusion is that you must include some form of FFA for those wishing to do more than casually experience content.
Finally, I would add that the current suggestion is very open and welcoming to all guilds and the overall population of Lockjaw. I imagine the proposals by the "middle guilds" currently beating bosses but no longer wishing to compete with Faceless will be proposing much more restrictive guidelines for guilds wishing to join the rotation and experience the end game content like everyone else. When I came back to everquest, after having not played since The Sleeper tlp, my only desire was to see content that I either hadn't had the chance to in my younger years or wished to relive. I started on Ragefire and quickly came to the determination that with the way things were being handled I would never get that opportunity. Now that I'm on Lockjaw I'm excited that this proposal is even a possibility for other players that came here with a similar mindset.

None of this changes why giving one guild that wants 1:1 FFA for 50% of all the raid targets, Even giving every guild 24 hours to down a target results in a faster turnaround of raid targets for everyone than doubling the number of turns in a rotation cycle for one guilds consumption. Darth tied his proposal to giving casual guilds 24 hours to engage to his proposal of 1:1 FFA for a reason, he doesn't have support from the majority and needs to buy votes. What happens if the majority simply tables his proposal and just votes on the 24 hours, and then votes to remove FFA all together because the proposal was ludacris and a more reasonable stance was not taken?

Again - what is stopping any other guild from competing for the FFA cycle? Nothing... that's the answer. You are basically saying that we can't play the way we want to - which is to compete with anyone else who wants to compete, while we are saying, if you don't want to - then stay on the rotation, still get loot and everyone is happy.

I don't understand how having 50% FFA is giving Faceless 50% of the raid targets? Have MM and AD given up on trying to contest any FFA targets?

This doesn't hold true if the mega guilds no longer find it worthwhile to be as large as they are and in turn split into many smaller guilds(I believe this splintering has happened somewhat on Ragefire but the FFA cycle there has kept TL in business for the time being). If I heard correctly, Faceless and AD had 300ish people for their last Naggy Sock/dps race. I'm willing to bet with the gear they have that's at least 4 rotation kills worth of people if not 5 or 6.

I feel like you're saying that guilds currently not on the rotation don't matter(i.e. shouldn't have a vote cause they're obviously being bought by Darth) and that they're not capable of making they're own decisions(i.e. they're just going to do whatever Darth says, which I believe they're not just mindless lackies).

First of all, I love Lockjaw because I think everyone has shown themselves to be mature and willing to have civil discussions and compromise. I won't be at that meeting and have no say on anything that will be said there(and frankly I'm glad). As stated above, if that were to happen I would fully expect these mega FFA guilds to splinter into smaller raid teams and we'd likely see 20+ "guilds" on the rotation by the time Kunark rolls around. I don't believe that's the situation anyone on the server wants.

Finally, I'm not sure you actually read everything I had to say as most of your response was already addressed in my original post and you seem to just be repeating your previous posts/agenda. The only reason I posted at all(and that was my first time to ever post on this forum) is that I felt there was a perspective/point of view not being expressed. This will be my last response as I prefer to spend my time in game. I wish yall the best of luck and happy hunting.

I am confused. If TL says they want competition and Faceless says they want competition why are they both not competing with each other? BTW being able to log in at 3 AM to kill a dragon doesn't make you hardcore, it means you don't have a life. MMOs has always been about a time investment to improve ones character. If you want skilled based competitive based games maybe try Counterstrike or League of Legends.

If you followed this idea to its conclusion wouldn't the best system be a 100% FFA solution?

That would provide more overall targets because they would all be dispatched as soon as they entered the world. The net result would be more items than any other system.

It's interesting to get everyone's interpretation of what he wrote. What I took away from it was he created an avenue to allow players in smaller guilds a guarantee to participate in the game's content. He could have just as easily wrote 12 hours or 4 hours but that wouldn't allow a guild to properly schedule raids.

He essentially gave the group of players who wish to not compete an instanced event without instancing since they could attempt the content on their own schedule.

Oh god look what dima wants(His proposed new rotation) 1 FFA cycle per ENTIRE rotation..

Anti-poopsock measures: 30 minute frame to prepare and engage any FFA targets. FFA targets are announced and coordinated..

WTF is that? You want guilds to announce FFA targets and you can't engage it until 30 minutes after it spawns? HAHA. Jesus christ dima, what is this crap. It's very sad occurrence when the GL of a supposedly top tier guild wants others to announce targets for him and then give him 30 minutes to gather and setup before anyone is allowed to engage.

This the problem. Guilds are now going to do everything in their power to change rotations to remove any and all competitiveness , since they can't compete.

Large guilds fragmenting into smaller raid capable guilds will already happen come instances when guilds will do so to support raiding during preferred timeslots, and due to lockouts.

FFA raids are the stellar opposite of having a rotation, They delay a rotation cycle for each additional FFA raid added and typically only benefit those guilds able to compete or at some point the one guild able to dominate the content, usually to the detriment of any other guilds on the server. That said I don't think eliminating all FFA is the answer since I agree guilds that for nostalgia reasons want it should have the option represented(equivalent to the number of guilds in the rotation that are actually competing ie 2:1 for each guild that wants one rounded up, since it takes two guilds that want to compete to make a FFA raid) One guild shouldn't get 50% of the rotation assigned that way, though unless the majority of guilds also want FFA, and tying a 1:1 FFA ratio to giving more casual guilds a 24 hour window was definitely about garnering support for more FFA raids. Separate the two positions to a vote on 24 hours and a vote for FFA days doubling the length of the rotation and I'm sure you can predict how that vote would go for the majority.

If you actually want to retain FFA raids you have to be realistic about what the effects are of having more FFA raids are on the majority of the server population. Its not a question of jealousy, its about the effect it has on the rotations length, in an accelerated era and overpopulation. And craft FFA proposals that aren't onerous or potentially one sided as the current 1:1 offer is. Ultimately at the end of the day I imagine all the guilds recognize the politicking behind all this and have already come to their own conclusions on what is best.

Personally I hope to see FFA retained in some form, and perhaps even increased to 1:1 levels on targets with fewer guilds, and reduced on targets that have a lot of guilds in rotation due to being easy. I imagine the time to engage will increase as well, though I would prefer it remain at no more than 3 hours, I feel for guilds that can't assemble a raid for their rotation turn in less than 12 hours, though every hour you extend a time to engage adds an hour per guild to everyone else in the cycles waiting time, though every FFA day you add puts 22-36 hours on every guild waiting that has no interest in competing over FFA days.

Where do I sign up for the MLG tournament of raiding EQ classic?

mlg.com

Ask dima, pretty soon he will be fighting to just have NPCs we talk to, to spawn our raid boss each weeks.

2 hour windows don't allow for the vast majority of guilds wanting to rotate and experience content to actually experience content. I don't want to kill other peoples dragons and gods. I want them to kill it.

I don't even want a spot in the rotation, because I don't need 24 hours to schedule a raid.

What I want is for the hundreds of people putting their faith and trust in me to help them enjoy their time playing EQ. Spending their money playing EQ, to be happy. In fact I want that for the majority of the server. This includes the 6+ guilds that would normally not have a shot at a raid target in era.

My proposal (since apparently honoring the one we all agreed to is no longer an option for some guild(s)) let's these guilds get rotation spots, with windows that allow them the best opportunity to actually kill dragons.

It also gives guilds like mine, the chance to risk all loot by having to be ready all the time. Race to targets and kill them before someone else.

My rotation does everything DBG said they wanted in a rotation. It keeps the spirit of competition alive, and allows all guilds a chance to experience content.

I am not politicking. I prefer to keep the current rotation as it nets me more kills then this one I'm proposing will, at the current numbers. For those keeping score I "could" get 5 FFA Vox on the new proposal (if I was the only competing guild) versus the fact I nabbed 7 Vox on the current thanks to engage windows.

Switching to my proposal takes away from my guild and gives to every other guild.

Switching to the other proposal takes from my guild only, and doesn't actually give anything to most guilds.

One proposal is healthy for most if not all of the server.

The other is vindictive and purely made to screw over the ONLY guild to institute a rotation because we chose to. Not because we were forced to.

So please keep saying I'm greedy, everyone with any intelligence can see I'm not.

Faceless Cares <3

Because Faceless doesn't want to switch back to Ragefire and TL doesn't want to switch to Lockjaw.