A friend and me have been working on offensive/defensive skills in the area. I'm practicing with a 2h, he duel wielding, both versus earth pets. There are no procs/spells used by anyone, and we consistantly get the following: A 2h weapon (30 delay) produces WAY more push than the pet or the beast lord (19, 21 delay weapons)
I never noticed push that much as a caster, who didn't used to raid... but now, it is just crazy. When I play my alt tank, there seems to be many things that will push mobs, I *think* they include procs, special melee abilities, and the fact that the mob's melee will push the tank as well. Pets will definitely push mobs, not sure if it is still as bad as it used to be, but unless they have changed things, pets will indeed push.
Pets most definitely have push. Toss a beast, mage, and shaman pet on one side of a mob, and watch it move across the zone. (And listen to the pally complain about it.) I do recall reading once that there's a +push modifier on 2handed weapons, compared to 1handed weapons, so that does make some sense.
Pets push. Melee and spells push. The easiest thing to do is blame pets when the mob gets pushed and DPS numbers drop lower. When generally it is dumb melee who ruin positioned pets.
Yeah, most definitely a combination of melee and pets.. Melee blame pets, casters blame melee I don't even send my pet in most of raids anymore, since mine doesn't do much for DPS.
See that is an issue for Magicians. Who have a nuke solely based on the number of pets. Which if your pet is one of the 15 we need on the mob, then it does not allow our Strike nuke to hit 5 times it only hits 4 times. And the 5th nukes is the biggest nuke on the spell. Now, if your pet is not needed, then you would be correct. However if it is needed it adds much more DPS then the amount that shows up on your parser.
And if you push the mob out of range of say a rogue and zerker during a burn for 2 seconds all the damage you 'gained' was lost.
So because melee can not learn how to push classes who know how to play properly are punished? Lol. Not to mention quite a few classes have abilities to move mobs around...
The debuff cap is here to limit necros. I would wager that push is here to limit everyone else. If push went away how could I get back at melee with my swarm pets, for the stuff they do that impairs me?
Since most pets are unable to be controlled (and permanent pets can be very difficult aswell), pet push should be removed. Melee chars can control their push 10 times easier and faster then a pet class can.
Remove push entirely. It's beyond long overdue. It makes as much sense as a field rat summoning. Both silly things only exist in one game, this one.
I voted to keep push in game ;P I like the idea of people needing to pay attention. And no its not all pets alot comes from melee too its just easier to blame a pet, with the huge amount of pets on a mob. But think about it the melee in a raid is just a few. Lets look at a straight tank and spank, say 54 people in the raid and your gonna have at least 9 healers. Now were down to 45 people to give the pets benifit of the doubt lets take 2 more and pretend those 2 chanters arnt doing anything but mezzing and stunning or something. Down to 43. Lets 3 caster groups with druid in each and chanter in 2 of those. And 3 wizards. Thats 12 classes with pets in the caster groups. And now were down to 28 people. Well say 4 SKs for a pet if they have it up. Now were up to 16 pet classes. 3 melee groups and putting the bards here for easier counting and we wont even count there swarm pets. Now with the melee groups gonna say a beast in each of those so thats another 3 pet classes, taking the total to 19 pets. Subtract the 3 supposed shamans that may be here that im including in the healers. Thats 15 people taking our count to 9. And were just gonna say 8 tanks with another random melee class. So thats 19 pet classes and 28 peope meleeing. So sure there are more melee right now but everyone is burning trying to make that parse. So now those pet classes are using swarm pets and wake the dead. So those 19 pets just turned into like 60 or 80 pets. Which do you think is gonna create more push 28 people who can easily move to a new spot? Or the 60 or 80 pets or more that are probably on the mob now that arnt gonna easily move to another spot? More than likely I would think the pet push is worse, but this is also coming from a melee perspective and these numbers are kind of just off the top of my head. And I will admit they could easily be wrong.
Push/summon ruins immersion just as much as the giant SC button does. It's no more of a challenge than waiting for a boat was. Just another annoyance.
How does it remove immersion? I understand summon/SC button, but having 54+ beings on one side of you attacking will move you around.. Increases immersion imo.
As someone who runs a mage, a beast, and a necro with all forms of swarm pet AAs and swarm pet clickies (Bunny, Icefall wolf etc) I can assure you pets push. Whether it comes from simply being pets or their melee I don't know, and is somewhat irrelevant as regardless of the cause they WILL do it. When all 3 of mine pop every swarm pet they have at their disposal plus their 3 static pets it'll push any mob a good 100 or more range away from where it was before all swarm pets poof. I agree. If you can stand firm against that many things hitting you IRL you're superhuman. Sorry. If we bring 'immersion' into the mix then in fact they not only shouldn't remove pet push, they should ADD player push.
I think that all depends on what is attacking you. In some cases if a whole bunch of squirrels or ants rushed me I might backpedal, but 100 ants wouldn't be pushing me back. Now twenty children could, but it's all relative to size and strength when talking about immersion.
